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31-01-2012, 10:58 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Is god bound by logic and/or laws of physics?
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31-01-2012, 11:01 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(31-01-2012 10:58 AM)Reactor Wrote:  Is god bound by logic and/or laws of physics?

No.

God is infinite and has no bounds.

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31-01-2012, 11:12 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Kingschosen, thanks for hanging in there with me for so many questions but I find your belief system to be fascinating. I now want to move on to more about your beliefs about desires.

(31-01-2012 08:09 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  If God gives me desires and my desires are to teach my children about God and see them go to heaven, due to my desires being that, it is a good indicator that my children are elect. God places desires in us for a reason.

Do all desires come from god? If not, how do you know which ones are god-given and which ones are not?

Do you distinguish between momentary desires, such as seeing a nice car drive by and wishing you had one, and long-term desires, such as for your children's futures?

If all desires do come from god, or if you've identified that a particular desire has come from god, is it a sin to not act on the desire? If it's not a sin, is it a transgression against god in any way, or is acting on desires purely your choice?

Is the linkage between desires and god any different for the elect vs. the non-elect?

You've stated or implied a couple of times now that your desires are an indicator. For example, god placed a desire inside of you for your children to go to heaven, and you take that as an indicator that they are elect. Does this work the same way for your beliefs - if you have a belief, god must have put it there, and therefore it's probably true?

A few questions related to prior topics:

I'd still like to get your answer on this - will you ever admit to your children that you would still worship god, even if he sends one or both of your children to an eternity of agony in hell.

Would you be happy in heaven if you know that your children are in hell?

Also, do prayers have any effect on people in hell? Does god listen to the prayers of people already in hell, and is there anything he would do for them? Will god respond to prayers from people on earth on behalf of people in hell (to perhaps turn down the flame in their particular corner of hell)?

Please tell me the most trivial thing you've ever prayed for that god delivered. Also, how do you/would you know that god delivered vs. some other cause?

You've stated that god created the earth, humanity and sin so that jesus would have an inheritance and something do do and be sacrificed for. Is jesus happy with his inheritance? The jesus described in the bible doesn't seem like the sort who would approve of the creation of human suffering as a job for jesus. Did jesus approve of god's actions in this regard?

Does jesus have a mind separate from god?
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31-01-2012, 03:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
So if god actions are not bound by logic and laws of physics then our actions as well are not bound by logic and laws of physics because we are controlled by god. So nothing actually make sense and it's completely normal because of god. Does this make sense (i know that by saying "make sense" i just contradict my above assumptions and i do it on purpose!)

Huh
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31-01-2012, 04:08 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I will answer probably tomorrow. My brain is fried today.

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31-01-2012, 04:48 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
For the purpose of this question, let's assume that your god exists. Now let's create a fictitious god and give him or her or it all the attributes of your assumed real god.
Except in name alone and or gender identity or lack there of, how do these two differ ?

Does a real god have any more or less effect on the world than a fictional god ?
If the fictional god had millions of followers and people who took it on faith that this god was real, would that change anything ?
If the fictional god had people willing to die in this god's name, would that change anything ?

Would the miracles attributed to the fictional god really be your gods' miracles ? Or would they be miracles at all ?

How does one tell the difference between a real god and a fictional god when they appear to be identical except for the name ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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31-01-2012, 07:20 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(31-01-2012 11:01 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  God is infinite and has no bounds.

I interpret that as, "God is a mathematical concept represented by the holy symbol ∞."

#sigh
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31-01-2012, 09:50 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(31-01-2012 04:48 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  For the purpose of this question, let's assume that your god exists. Now let's create a fictitious god and give him or her or it all the attributes of your assumed real god.
Except in name alone and or gender identity or lack there of, how do these two differ ?

Does a real god have any more or less effect on the world than a fictional god ?
If the fictional god had millions of followers and people who took it on faith that this god was real, would that change anything ?
If the fictional god had people willing to die in this god's name, would that change anything ?

Would the miracles attributed to the fictional god really be your gods' miracles ? Or would they be miracles at all ?

How does one tell the difference between a real god and a fictional god when they appear to be identical except for the name ?

The universe looks exactly as it would if God does not exist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-02-2012, 11:33 AM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2012 11:38 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(31-01-2012 11:12 AM)Jeff Wrote:  Kingschosen, thanks for hanging in there with me for so many questions but I find your belief system to be fascinating. I now want to move on to more about your beliefs about desires.

Of course. That's why I'm here.

Quote:Do all desires come from god? If not, how do you know which ones are god-given and which ones are not?

Yes, all desires are given to us from God.

Quote:Do you distinguish between momentary desires, such as seeing a nice car drive by and wishing you had one, and long-term desires, such as for your children's futures?

If all desires do come from god, or if you've identified that a particular desire has come from god, is it a sin to not act on the desire? If it's not a sin, is it a transgression against god in any way, or is acting on desires purely your choice?

We are given desires to encompass our human nature ie make us human. Our desires are given to us from God, and ultimately, how we respond to those desires is determined by God, but we are given these desires - again - to fulfill Christ's purpose. Without desires given to us, we could not sin, as the results from our desires either pleases God or displeases Him.

So, there is no distinguishing. Desires are predetermined, and we cannot act outside of them.

Quote:Is the linkage between desires and god any different for the elect vs. the non-elect?

No. Everything is predetermined by God; including all the non-elect's actions.

Quote:You've stated or implied a couple of times now that your desires are an indicator. For example, god placed a desire inside of you for your children to go to heaven, and you take that as an indicator that they are elect. Does this work the same way for your beliefs - if you have a belief, god must have put it there, and therefore it's probably true?

Yes. Believers believe because they are elect. The non-elect cannot believe or understand because they are non-elect.

John 8:43-47
43“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45“But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46“Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47“He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”


Quote:I'd still like to get your answer on this - will you ever admit to your children that you would still worship god, even if he sends one or both of your children to an eternity of agony in hell.

They will be taught Christianity. They will know what I believe if they are not Christians. There won't be a need for telling them because they will know.

Quote:Would you be happy in heaven if you know that your children are in hell?

I will not know they are in hell.

Revelation 21:4
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”


Quote:Also, do prayers have any effect on people in hell?

No. God does not hear the prayers of the non-elect.

Quote:Does god listen to the prayers of people already in hell, and is there anything he would do for them?

No, they were already predetermined for hell.

Quote:Will god respond to prayers from people on earth on behalf of people in hell (to perhaps turn down the flame in their particular corner of hell)?

No. Again, everything was already predetermined.

Quote:Please tell me the most trivial thing you've ever prayed for that god delivered. Also, how do you/would you know that god delivered vs. some other cause?

Back in my indoctrinated days, it was getting an A on a test. Now, I know I got an A because I studied because God placed the desire in me to do well on the test which resulted in me learning the material.

Quote:You've stated that god created the earth, humanity and sin so that jesus would have an inheritance and something do do and be sacrificed for. Is jesus happy with his inheritance?

Yes. He is happy with His elect.

Quote:The jesus described in the bible doesn't seem like the sort who would approve of the creation of human suffering as a job for jesus. Did jesus approve of god's actions in this regard?

Jesus was God, but the Bible also states that the Son didn't know everything that God knew. I do not know the answer to this question.

Quote:Does jesus have a mind separate from god?

It appears that way in the Bible. There appears to be a separation from His (Jesus/Son) Godly omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence when we took on the role of a human.
(31-01-2012 03:58 PM)Reactor Wrote:  So if god actions are not bound by logic and laws of physics then our actions as well are not bound by logic and laws of physics because we are controlled by god. So nothing actually make sense and it's completely normal because of god. Does this make sense (i know that by saying "make sense" i just contradict my above assumptions and i do it on purpose!)

Huh

No. God bound us by our laws of logic and physics. God is not bound to what we are bound to.
(31-01-2012 04:48 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  For the purpose of this question, let's assume that your god exists. Now let's create a fictitious god and give him or her or it all the attributes of your assumed real god.
Except in name alone and or gender identity or lack there of, how do these two differ ?

Does a real god have any more or less effect on the world than a fictional god ?
If the fictional god had millions of followers and people who took it on faith that this god was real, would that change anything ?
If the fictional god had people willing to die in this god's name, would that change anything ?

Would the miracles attributed to the fictional god really be your gods' miracles ? Or would they be miracles at all ?

How does one tell the difference between a real god and a fictional god when they appear to be identical except for the name ?

The same way you know the difference between

[Image: coca-cola.jpg]

and

[Image: sams-can.jpg]

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
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01-02-2012, 01:02 PM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2012 01:06 PM by Reactor.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
Excuse me but I think your explanations got some (BIG) logical gaps.

(28-01-2012 12:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  That's against God's plan. I couldn't do it if I wanted to.
God has a plan for me... whatever it is, it has to be fulfilled.
(29-01-2012 12:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I cannot kill myself or my family because it's against God's plan.
I couldn't do it if I wanted to.
So if some of our actions are against the god's plan then, god's plan overpower our actions. In other terms a miracle happen.

(28-01-2012 12:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Besides, I like life Smile
Yeah, but you like heaven more Smile

(29-01-2012 12:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  God has also given me the desire to love myself and my family and I cannot act outside of those desires. God has also given me the desire of life and to live it fully. That's something that I can't act outside of.
God has also given you the desire to go to heaven and YOU CAN'T act outside of it.
So again why don't you kill yourself? Give a better explanation, if you have any, or just make a commend to my above statements. (or both)
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