Ask a Theist!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 9 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-02-2012, 03:48 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
KC - I'm glad you agree that the only difference between a fictional god and a real god are in the names that are written down in a book or on a can.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-02-2012, 04:00 PM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2012 04:02 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(01-02-2012 01:02 PM)Reactor Wrote:  So if some of our actions are against the god's plan then, god's plan overpower our actions. In other terms a miracle happen.

Our actions can never be against God's plan. Nothing we can do can ever influence God.

Quote:God has also given you the desire to go to heaven and YOU CAN'T act outside of it.
So again why don't you kill yourself? Give a better explanation, if you have any, or just make a commend to my above statements. (or both)

Because God hasn't given me the desire to kill myself. Desires don't have to be fulfilled immediately. My desire for heaven will be fulfilled eventually.

And again, I cannot kill myself because it's against God's plan.
(01-02-2012 03:48 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  KC - I'm glad you agree that the only difference between a fictional god and a real god are in the names that are written down in a book or on a can.

Dude... have you ever tasted Sam's Cola? Sure, it resembles Coke... but it ain't Coke. Nothing is Coke. Everyone tries to imitate Coke, and while they may get it close, they don't compare to Coke's taste.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kingschosen's post
01-02-2012, 04:21 PM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2012 04:27 PM by Jeff.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(01-02-2012 11:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes, all desires are given to us from God.

With regard to this commandment from the bible:

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. "

If I desire to have sex with my neighbor's wife, is that coveting her? If so, since the desire for her was placed in me by god, and my response to the desire is determined by god, do I play any role in violating the commandment?

Why does god place the desire in some priests or other child sex offenders to bugger little children?

When a sex offender has the god-given desire to bugger a child, and god determines that their response is to carry out the act and actually have sex with the child, why do you think god sets up this desire and fulfillment in the sex offender?

Please confirm what I think you also say about this - a sex offender is given the desire to bugger children by god, and is directed to do the buggering by god, and this fulfills christ's purpose.

(01-02-2012 11:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Without desires given to us, we could not sin, as the results from our desires either pleases God or displeases Him.

From what you've said the outcome is not in doubt, so I don't understand the phrase "the results from our desires either pleases god or displeases him." God creates the desire, god directs the response, god knows the outcome before placing the desire, why is there an either/or in this?

(01-02-2012 11:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Desires are predetermined, and we cannot act outside of them.

That's a bit more of incompro-speak. Please clarify what "we cannot act outside of them." means - we can't ignore them?

Jeff Wrote:Does this work the same way for your beliefs - if you have a belief, god must have put it there, and therefore it's probably true?

(01-02-2012 11:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes. Believers believe because they are elect. The non-elect cannot believe or understand because they are non-elect.

It sounds like you are saying that your beliefs are true because you believe them. Please confirm that.

(01-02-2012 11:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  They will be taught Christianity. They will know what I believe if they are not Christians. There won't be a need for telling them because they will know.

The issue isn't whether they are christians, it's whether they are elect. How will they know that you will still worship the god that condemns them to an eternity of agony in hell?

If a child sex offender buggers one of your children, will that still be part of god's plan? Will you still worship god in this scenario? Will you explain to your children that it's not the fault of the buggerer, since the desire to bugger was placed in him by god and god directed his response to the desire?

Given that the buggerer has no choice on the desire and the decision to act on it, do you support punishing the buggerer through the legal system?

(01-02-2012 11:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I will not know they are in hell.

Will you know if they are in heaven with you? If so, how will you not notice their absence if they are in hell?

(01-02-2012 11:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Back in my indoctrinated days, it was getting an A on a test. Now, I know I got an A because I studied because God placed the desire in me to do well on the test which resulted in me learning the material.

How do you feel knowing that god spent his time helping you get an A instead of helping the millions worldwide who don't have enough to eat? Will you teach your children to behave as god does, focusing on something trivial while ignoring something more important?

(01-02-2012 11:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Nothing we can do can ever influence God.

Please explain this response you gave to Reactor. Do you mean that god never reacts to what we do?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Jeff's post
01-02-2012, 06:39 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(01-02-2012 04:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Our actions can never be against God's plan.
Why our actions can never be against god's plan?
Is there a mechanism that prevent us?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-02-2012, 06:53 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I totally agree KC, no one can match coke. I'm still not much of a pop drinker... maybe it's because of the fact that it is terrible for you. ... . .. . . ..

Maybe coke and religion are great parables for one another.

Tastes great, gives you what you think you need. Kills you. Oh and you get gas. I assume you get gas when you go to church.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like lucradis's post
02-02-2012, 09:21 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 09:23 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(01-02-2012 04:21 PM)Jeff Wrote:  With regard to this commandment from the bible:

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. "

If I desire to have sex with my neighbor's wife, is that coveting her? If so, since the desire for her was placed in me by god, and my response to the desire is determined by god, do I play any role in violating the commandment?

Why does god place the desire in some priests or other child sex offenders to bugger little children?

When a sex offender has the god-given desire to bugger a child, and god determines that their response is to carry out the act and actually have sex with the child, why do you think god sets up this desire and fulfillment in the sex offender?

Please confirm what I think you also say about this - a sex offender is given the desire to bugger children by god, and is directed to do the buggering by god, and this fulfills christ's purpose.

As I've said before, sin and evil are an unfortunate necessity for the fulfillment of God's plan. Because of our sinful nature, we are given sinful desires. Because of humanity's total depravity, God can give us over to our sinful desires so that we may live in it.

The Bible says that God prepares (or creates) evil, and again, this is according to His plan and purpose. Why God allows this, I don't know. I've never claimed to know the will of God; however, I do know that nothing can happen without God permissive authority.

Quote:From what you've said the outcome is not in doubt, so I don't understand the phrase "the results from our desires either pleases god or displeases him." God creates the desire, god directs the response, god knows the outcome before placing the desire, why is there an either/or in this?

Sin displeases God regardless of how it comes to fruition. It's true that He created the sin; however, that doesn't mean it pleases Him. During creation, the plan was said to be "good". This doesn't mean "perfect" as most think. It was "perfect" in a sense that its function was perfect; sin included. Man wasn't created to be "perfect". Man was created to sin... and sin displeases God... but sin has a function.

Quote:That's a bit more of incompro-speak. Please clarify what "we cannot act outside of them." means - we can't ignore them?

"Not acting outside my desires" means that I can't so something that God hasn't planned for me. Let's take the suicide thing for example. It could never be my desire to commit suicide because God hasn't given me that desire. I do not have the freewill to commit suicide because suicide is outside the desires that God placed in me.

Quote:It sounds like you are saying that your beliefs are true because you believe them. Please confirm that.

Yes. Sort of. Because I do not believe in freewill. I do not believe in the choice to believe what I want; therefore, my belief in God is because I am elect. My beliefs aren't true because I believe them; they are true because God chose for me to believe them, and I do not have a choice to believe differently.

Quote:The issue isn't whether they are christians, it's whether they are elect. How will they know that you will still worship the god that condemns them to an eternity of agony in hell?

I cannot speak for them. If they do not believe the same as me, then there isn't anything I can do about that. They will know that I will love them unconditionally, regardless of their beliefs.

Quote:If a child sex offender buggers one of your children, will that still be part of god's plan? Will you still worship god in this scenario? Will you explain to your children that it's not the fault of the buggerer, since the desire to bugger was placed in him by god and god directed his response to the desire?

Given that the buggerer has no choice on the desire and the decision to act on it, do you support punishing the buggerer through the legal system?

I believe that that isn't anything that can separate me from Christ. This would indeed be a horrific situation. I cannot say one way or another how I would respond as I've never been put in this sort of situation. I don't know which desires God would place in me at this time.

As of right now, my desire would be to kill them for harming my children.

I do support the legal system to punish and condemn because we are to honor the laws given to us by man.

Quote:Will you know if they are in heaven with you? If so, how will you not notice their absence if they are in hell?

That I'm not sure of. I'm assuming that our glorified bodies (heavenly bodies) will function differently than our earthly bodies. I also know that heaven will be praising God for an eternity, so I'm leaning to more of the "no" side of this argument. Memories of earth can induce pain; no matter what they are. There isn't going to be any pain of any type, so I don't think we will have any type of earthly memories.

Quote:How do you feel knowing that god spent his time helping you get an A instead of helping the millions worldwide who don't have enough to eat? Will you teach your children to behave as god does, focusing on something trivial while ignoring something more important?

God predetermined my desire to learn the material before the foundations of the world - just as He planned for the world-wide suffering of others before the foundations of the world. I do not know why. I thank God for His mercy in my life.

God is also omnipresent. So, His creation of my desires didn't take time away from His interests in other affairs. God's plan is God's plan. I have no control over that.

Quote:Please explain this response you gave to Reactor. Do you mean that god never reacts to what we do?

No. Everything is predetermined. If He did react to something a person did, then He would subservient to human whims.
(01-02-2012 06:39 PM)Reactor Wrote:  Why our actions can never be against god's plan?
Is there a mechanism that prevent us?

Yes. Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, His plan was predetermined before there was a "before". Everything was already laid out. We do not have the freewill to act outside of this plan. If we did, God would not be all powerful or all knowing.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-02-2012, 09:28 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(01-02-2012 04:21 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Please confirm what I think you also say about this - a sex offender is given the desire to bugger children by god, and is directed to do the buggering by god, and this fulfills christ's purpose.

God is the Prime Buggerer. Whenever someone gets buggered, the root cause is a being of greater buggery. But nothing can be buggered without a buggerer, so there must be a first buggerer. This buggerer we call God.

Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like morondog's post
02-02-2012, 09:28 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Preach it brother! Huh

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-02-2012, 10:45 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(02-02-2012 09:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(01-02-2012 06:39 PM)Reactor Wrote:  Why our actions can never be against god's plan?
Is there a mechanism that prevent us?
Yes. Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, His plan was predetermined before there was a "before". Everything was already laid out. We do not have the freewill to act outside of this plan. If we did, God would not be all powerful or all knowing.

1.So, if we do something that is against his plan then that whould be proof that god doesn't exist. Am I right? (or awesome maybe)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-02-2012, 10:47 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(02-02-2012 10:45 AM)Reactor Wrote:  
(02-02-2012 09:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(01-02-2012 06:39 PM)Reactor Wrote:  Why our actions can never be against god's plan?
Is there a mechanism that prevent us?
Yes. Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, His plan was predetermined before there was a "before". Everything was already laid out. We do not have the freewill to act outside of this plan. If we did, God would not be all powerful or all knowing.

1.So, if we do something that is against his plan then that whould be proof that god doesn't exist. Am I right? (or awesome maybe)

Yes.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: