Ask a Theist!
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02-02-2012, 11:49 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(02-02-2012 11:45 AM)Reactor Wrote:  
(02-02-2012 11:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-02-2012 10:47 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-02-2012 10:45 AM)Reactor Wrote:  
(02-02-2012 09:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes. Since God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, His plan was predetermined before there was a "before". Everything was already laid out. We do not have the freewill to act outside of this plan. If we did, God would not be all powerful or all knowing.

1.So, if we do something that is against his plan then that whould be proof that god doesn't exist. Am I right? (or awesome maybe)

Yes.

But there is no way to know what God's plan is.

I ll try to make his point more clear and possible extend it.

Since we can't know god's plan, then any questions, answers or claims regarding god's plan are meaningless.

So my suggestion is stop using "god's plan" because it is meaningless and no informations are given from your answers that include this.

Any objections?

I'm continually being asked about, so I'm answering the question as best I can.

Also, I base God's plan for me on my current desires that He has given me... which I've made clear. I've also made it clear that I don't know God's ultimate plan for my life. Only God knows that; however, based on my current desires, I have a good indication as to what God's current plan for me is.

You're asking future; I'm talking present.

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02-02-2012, 12:15 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Not to beat the dead horse anymore...
I think I'm understanding that KC is saying he can only know "God's plan" for himself and no one else. He is not advised of the future; he is only able to know what's right for him right now -just like anyone else on the planet.

KC is certain that he seeks help with decisions in his life, comfort in his life, and finds answers to philosophical questions in his life, from God.

Non-Theists seek help with decisions, comfort, philosophical questions in life by way of friends, loved ones and mainly from within using the tools of critical thinking and logic.

The distinct separation from what each party perceives as reality could be... vast.
I suppose it depends how close one gets to the edge of the abyss.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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02-02-2012, 07:11 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(02-02-2012 12:15 PM)kim Wrote:  KC is certain that he seeks help with decisions in his life, comfort in his life, and finds answers to philosophical questions in his life, from God.

That is a scary kind of certainty imho. Might as well talk to the back end of a donkey. What possible answers can something that doesn't exist give?
Poor KC. He is one lost puppy.

(02-02-2012 12:15 PM)kim Wrote:  Non-Theists seek help with decisions, comfort, philosophical questions in life by way of friends, loved ones and mainly from within using the tools of critical thinking and logic.

The distinct separation from what each party perceives as reality could be... vast.
I suppose it depends how close one gets to the edge of the abyss.

There is only one reality.
The question arises as to what method one uses to determine what is true and correct about the reality? Some methods are consistent while others are not.
It is obvious that getting answers from 'god' is a silly endeavor and produces inconsistent results.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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02-02-2012, 07:41 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Do you ever hope you're wrong, that the majority of humans actually won't be tortured for eternity?

I just don't understand how you could be okay with the idea that at least some of the people you love are going to be tortured forever and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
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02-02-2012, 08:06 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
If someone is clinical dead and then revived with a shock or something does this mean that he gone to heaven(or hell) and then forced to return back to earth?
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03-02-2012, 08:36 AM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2012 08:37 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(02-02-2012 07:41 PM)Ben Wrote:  Do you ever hope you're wrong, that the majority of humans actually won't be tortured for eternity?

I just don't understand how you could be okay with the idea that at least some of the people you love are going to be tortured forever and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

I can't dwell on things I cannot control. I only hope that God has elected them.
(02-02-2012 08:06 PM)Reactor Wrote:  If someone is clinical dead and then revived with a shock or something does this mean that he gone to heaven(or hell) and then forced to return back to earth?

No.

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03-02-2012, 03:22 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(02-02-2012 07:11 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  Some methods are consistent while others are not.
It is obvious that getting answers from 'god' is a silly endeavor and produces inconsistent results.

Where are my inconsistencies? I feel that my theology is pretty reconciled.

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03-02-2012, 03:28 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(03-02-2012 03:22 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Where are my inconsistencies? I feel that my theology is pretty reconciled.

Your thought process has led you to conclude that there is a god who actually does what you think it does.
Anything you say that supports a supernatural explanation is inconsistent with known realities.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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03-02-2012, 03:32 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(03-02-2012 03:28 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  
(03-02-2012 03:22 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Where are my inconsistencies? I feel that my theology is pretty reconciled.

Your thought process has led you to conclude that there is a god who actually does what you think it does.
Anything you say that supports a supernatural explanation is inconsistent with known realities.

And, known realities should limit thought processes?

That's a very primitive way of thinking.

I would venture to say that thinking outside of reality and logic, while still being grounded in it, is a more advanced, evolved way of thinking.

You're stagnating in antiquity by thinking purely in reality.

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03-02-2012, 04:05 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2012 04:11 PM by FSM_scot.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
I felt I should ask you a serious question, since the other ones I've posted in this thread have been jokes.

In another thread you said
(02-02-2012 09:16 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  All humans (albeit Jesus) past, present, and future were created to sin and have sinful natures. God is just by damning those sinful natures to a physical death and an eternal death; however, He is merciful in the fact that He elected some for salvation.
when hughsie said
Quote:do you mean that you believe God has already pre-determined who is going to go to heaven before we are born and regardless of what we do?
You said yes.

So my questions are:
If god is truly merciful would he not elect everyone for salvation?. Why create people who are not worthy, who are destined to hell regardless of what choices they make in life?, predetermined by a god, before they were even born. It seems an extremely cruel act for a being capable of acts of mercy and love that we as humans couldn't begin to comprehend.
And then what is the point of free will if we are living our life's in a way set out by god.
It also raises the question, Why bother sending Jesus? because if only a select few are chosen for heaven and it was predetermined before they existed, they would have got into heaven anyway, and those that god didn't elect wouldn't get into heaven regardless which makes the whole Jesus redemption thing redundant.

Sorry i know its alot to ask at once.

Behold the power of the force!
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