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04-02-2012, 07:30 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
KC, what are your beliefs about the content of the bible? Are you in the "inerrant word of god" camp or something else?
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04-02-2012, 08:27 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 07:30 AM)Jeff Wrote:  KC, what are your beliefs about the content of the bible? Are you in the "inerrant word of god" camp or something else?

Yes.

But inerrant in the sense that that it's divinely inspired. "Inspired" does not mean that everything in the Bible is without error in the literal sense. If that was the case, then something like Jesus' parables would be inerrant.

There are stories in the Bible that present a divine message and aren't meant to be literal or scientific.

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04-02-2012, 09:07 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 07:30 AM)Jeff Wrote:  KC, what are your beliefs about the content of the bible? Are you in the "inerrant word of god" camp or something else?
Yes.
But inerrant in the sense that that it's divinely inspired. "Inspired" does not mean that everything in the Bible is without error in the literal sense. If that was the case, then something like Jesus' parables would be inerrant.

There are stories in the Bible that present a divine message and aren't meant to be literal or scientific.

This is understandable.
The fables of Aesop contain a modicum of morality and truisms inspired by human behavior, while attributing this behavior to various animals.

Fox and the Grapes
Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked, "Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes."

People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain, are said to have "sour grapes", a phrase we continue to use to this day.

Aesop never claimed to be relating real events with his stories and says so up front - not a pushy guy. Shy

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04-02-2012, 09:57 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 07:30 AM)Jeff Wrote:  KC, what are your beliefs about the content of the bible? Are you in the "inerrant word of god" camp or something else?

Yes.

But inerrant in the sense that that it's divinely inspired. "Inspired" does not mean that everything in the Bible is without error in the literal sense. If that was the case, then something like Jesus' parables would be inerrant.

There are stories in the Bible that present a divine message and aren't meant to be literal or scientific.

Please stop torturing the English language. Inerrant means without error in the literal sense. Inerrant does not mean inspired.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2012, 10:43 AM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2012 10:59 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 09:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 07:30 AM)Jeff Wrote:  KC, what are your beliefs about the content of the bible? Are you in the "inerrant word of god" camp or something else?

Yes.

But inerrant in the sense that that it's divinely inspired. "Inspired" does not mean that everything in the Bible is without error in the literal sense. If that was the case, then something like Jesus' parables would be inerrant.

There are stories in the Bible that present a divine message and aren't meant to be literal or scientific.

Please stop torturing the English language. Inerrant means without error in the literal sense. Inerrant does not mean inspired.

Which is why I don't call it "inerrant". I call it "inspired". I just had to explain what I meant by it.
(03-02-2012 04:05 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  So my questions are:
If god is truly merciful would he not elect everyone for salvation?.

He is also just. Justice for sin is death and hell. If everyone is elected for salvation, then Jesus' death was meaningless because there would be no consequence from sin; thus mooting the redemption.

Quote:Why create people who are not worthy, who are destined to hell regardless of what choices they make in life?, predetermined by a god, before they were even born. It seems an extremely cruel act for a being capable of acts of mercy and love that we as humans couldn't begin to comprehend.

This is partially mentioned above; however, God's plan takes precedence over humanity. The plan of Jesus was planned from the beginning. His sacrifice became a fulfillment of that plan.

Quote:And then what is the point of free will if we are living our life's in a way set out by god.

I don't believe in freewill.

Quote:It also raises the question, Why bother sending Jesus? because if only a select few are chosen for heaven and it was predetermined before they existed, they would have got into heaven anyway, and those that god didn't elect wouldn't get into heaven regardless which makes the whole Jesus redemption thing redundant.

No. Their predetermined redemption was because of Christ's predetermined sacrifice. The elect couldn't be redeemed without Christ. All of this was predetermined from the beginning - the elect were chosen because of Christ's future sacrifice.

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04-02-2012, 11:07 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But inerrant in the sense that that it's divinely inspired. "Inspired" does not mean that everything in the Bible is without error in the literal sense. If that was the case, then something like Jesus' parables would be inerrant.

OK but aside from the parables, which are given as made-up stories, are the facts in the bible without error? If not, what qualities of the bible are error-free? Since you've read the bible carefully, are there any errors that you've noticed?

Also, did god inspire only the original authors of the writings in the bible? What about the scribes who copied and recopied them? What about the translators? Are/were all inspired? If not, and since we don't have any of the original texts, how do you know which passages you can rely on and which contain errors?

Also, how do you know that someone who wasn't inspired didn't rewrite parts of the bible to change them deliberately? Would god have some means of stopping them from doing so? If I took the electronic text of the bible and deliberately changed names, places and meanings, then printed the result in the style of the bible, with the title bible on the front, would god somehow stop this from happening? How would someone picking up this bible know that it's not inspired or inerrant?
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04-02-2012, 11:17 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Have you considered the possibility that God has predestined you to believe in him even though he doesn't truly exist? Tongue

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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04-02-2012, 12:23 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Have you ever tested your IQ in a specialist or with an online test perhaps?
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04-02-2012, 03:27 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 10:43 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I don't believe in freewill.

No. Their predetermined redemption was because of Christ's predetermined sacrifice. The elect couldn't be redeemed without Christ. All of this was predetermined from the beginning - the elect were chosen because of Christ's future sacrifice.
But if there is no free will then the idea we can sin and choose to take Jesus into our hearts is redundant as we have no choice in the matter. God made the choice for us and are just following a script laid out by god before we existed.

Without free will god has made some people purely to end up in hell through no fault or choices of their own. Which goes back to my point about sending Jesus to earth being pointless as no one chooses to follow him. God made that choice for them.
It would also shows that god is needlessly cruel as he is intentionally creating people to be sent to hell, how can God be just, if he intentionally does that as part of a plan?. As the condemned never had a chance to begin with.

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04-02-2012, 03:43 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 11:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you considered the possibility that God has predestined you to believe in him even though he doesn't truly exist? Tongue

Ok. This is where I ask: DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY DRUGS THEY CAN SPARE, SO I CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THIS THREAD? Tongue

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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