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04-02-2012, 04:27 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 11:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you considered the possibility that God has predestined you to believe in him even though he doesn't truly exist? Tongue

Can God create a world in which He doesn't exist?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2012, 04:35 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 11:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you considered the possibility that God has predestined you to believe in him even though he doesn't truly exist? Tongue

Can God create a world in which He doesn't exist?

Since by definition, God can do anything, I'd have to say yes. And I believe it to be the world we now live in, thank God!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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04-02-2012, 04:53 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 04:35 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 11:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you considered the possibility that God has predestined you to believe in him even though he doesn't truly exist? Tongue

Can God create a world in which He doesn't exist?

Since by definition, God can do anything, I'd have to say yes. And I believe it to be the world we now live in, thank God!

Yep - and Erxomai officially puts the thread over the edge. Shy

I haven't heard anything this kookoo for cocopuffs since ...

No no no, we will not discuss my drug-experimental-youth. Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-02-2012, 04:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 04:53 PM)kim Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 04:35 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 11:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you considered the possibility that God has predestined you to believe in him even though he doesn't truly exist? Tongue

Can God create a world in which He doesn't exist?

Since by definition, God can do anything, I'd have to say yes. And I believe it to be the world we now live in, thank God!

Yep - and Erxomai officially puts the thread over the edge. Shy

I haven't heard anything this kookoo for cocopuffs since ...

No no no, we will not discuss my drug-experimental-youth. Dodgy

I'd say my work is done here.
68 pages of this inane drivel seems enough to me.

But I would like to hear more about your youth. Big Grin

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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04-02-2012, 10:20 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Expletive. Dodgy
Ok Kingsy... a last post from me.... since we finally met Queeny and all. Shy
*****

"Eternal fires of Hell." "Damned for eternity." "Live with Jesus for eternity."

What is the meaning of this word "eternity"? Is it not the same before the beginning, as well as after?

Should not "eternity" be a timeless thing... no beginning... no end... ?

I just ask because Theists who accept evolution and even the big bang, attribute the big bang to God, which is fine by me, as long as we can get along with our lives.
Yet, they keep asking what there was before the big bang.

Isn't eternity big enough for them?

Do they perceive my big bang and my universe to be somehow bigger than their God? Is that what offends them about my atheism? Is it big bang envy?

Cause that is a dick fight.
Rolleyes You guys gotta GET OVER that shit.

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05-02-2012, 09:33 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 07:30 AM)Jeff Wrote:  KC, what are your beliefs about the content of the bible? Are you in the "inerrant word of god" camp or something else?

Yes.

But inerrant in the sense that that it's divinely inspired. "Inspired" does not mean that everything in the Bible is without error in the literal sense. If that was the case, then something like Jesus' parables would be inerrant.

There are stories in the Bible that present a divine message and aren't meant to be literal or scientific.

Other religions have books that are supposedly divinely inspired.
What's so special about the Bible?

I'm pretty sure if you lived in Saudi Arabia, you'd be a Muslim. If you lived in rural India, you'd be a Hindu. Would it be your fault that you weren't a Christian? Is it fair for God to condemn people of other faiths, when a person religion is influenced by the culture in which they live?
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05-02-2012, 09:37 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-02-2012 09:33 PM)Jasrace Wrote:  I'm pretty sure if you lived in Saudi Arabia, you'd be a Muslim. If you lived in rural India, you'd be a Hindu. Would it be your fault that you weren't a Christian? Is it fair for God to condemn people of other faiths, when a person religion is influenced by the culture in which they live?

I get the feeling you don't know KC very well, otherwise you wouldn't ask that question. Tongue
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06-02-2012, 01:52 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(05-02-2012 09:33 PM)Jasrace Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 07:30 AM)Jeff Wrote:  KC, what are your beliefs about the content of the bible? Are you in the "inerrant word of god" camp or something else?

Yes.

But inerrant in the sense that that it's divinely inspired. "Inspired" does not mean that everything in the Bible is without error in the literal sense. If that was the case, then something like Jesus' parables would be inerrant.

There are stories in the Bible that present a divine message and aren't meant to be literal or scientific.

Other religions have books that are supposedly divinely inspired.
What's so special about the Bible?

I'm pretty sure if you lived in Saudi Arabia, you'd be a Muslim. If you lived in rural India, you'd be a Hindu. Would it be your fault that you weren't a Christian? Is it fair for God to condemn people of other faiths, when a person religion is influenced by the culture in which they live?


This has been my whole problem. However.. If you serve another God, you are damned to hell for all eternity. WTF??

Before you see the light, you must die!
Through the fear you're sold into the fraud
It's my obsession, to treat (g)od like an infection
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06-02-2012, 09:05 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I totally thought up a question after reading something but I can't remember what I was reading that made me think of it. I hope you read it, even though I think your attention is starting to wane as of recent. Can't really blame you.

Have you ever seen the movie Frailty?

It's a fantastic movie, but not one to watch with your kids.

It's relevant because it talks about god's chosen. A dad has a vision from god. God sent an angel to tell him what to do. He was supposed to take himself and his two sons on a killing spree. In secret mind you, as no one else was allowed to know.
They would be given targets and tools and then they would go out... get the targets.... and kill them. There's more to the story than that, but I don't want to spoil the story, and the rest isn't relevant anyways.

I was wondering if you would kill for god? You know if god told you to kill people he considered demons, would you do it?
And would you include your son if god told you to?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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06-02-2012, 10:15 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 10:44 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-02-2012 11:07 AM)Jeff Wrote:  OK but aside from the parables, which are given as made-up stories, are the facts in the bible without error? If not, what qualities of the bible are error-free? Since you've read the bible carefully, are there any errors that you've noticed?

Yes, facts in the Bible are without error; however, this is a relative statement. Based on the human understanding of "science" during that time period, the statements are true. The Bible isn't a science book, and it was never trying to be a science book, so it's easy to understand why some of the science is wrong. If anything, it validates its authenticity because it parallels the beliefs of the earth during that time.

Look... God wasn't trying to be a science teacher during the Biblical times. His book is about His covenant with His people and about the salvation that is offered to us. The ways that is reached through God's interaction with us is divinely inspired and recorded in the Bible.

Since humans are results of evolution, it makes perfect sense that the science in the Bible isn't the science that we know today. The human understanding of science wasn't evolved enough to make correct interpretations of the world, but this doesn't affect the inspired nature of the Bible.

The common rebuttal to this is, "Well, if God is all knowing then He would have told His people the correct science to write in the Bible."

Well... no. We are under the plan of evolution, and as we evolved, we start to understand more of the world around us. We do not understand all of science ~6000 years later, so why are people in the Bible held to a different standard? I'll say it again... the Bible isn't a science book. It was never meant to be. It is a message to the elect. Beliefs and "science" that corresponded with the times are collateral within the Bible, but they should never be the focal point. It doesn't prove anything except the beliefs of the time. It doesn't void the inspired message of the Bible.

Quote:Also, did god inspire only the original authors of the writings in the bible? What about the scribes who copied and recopied them? What about the translators? Are/were all inspired? If not, and since we don't have any of the original texts, how do you know which passages you can rely on and which contain errors?

This is simply a faith based belief. It is accepted that the original authors were inspired and that the oldest texts that we have have been faithfully reproduced according to the original inspired text.

Modern translations are not inspired. There are many errors within translations from the oldest texts. This is why it's important to reference the original languages when interpreting scripture.

Quote:Also, how do you know that someone who wasn't inspired didn't rewrite parts of the bible to change them deliberately? Would god have some means of stopping them from doing so? If I took the electronic text of the bible and deliberately changed names, places and meanings, then printed the result in the style of the bible, with the title bible on the front, would god somehow stop this from happening? How would someone picking up this bible know that it's not inspired or inerrant?

Again, this is another faith-based belief. It is believed that God protected His inspired word to be given to us in the Bible. As the Bible was translated into different languages, several meanings were lost in translation; thus, the corrupted modern translations.

And, you are basing your premise of the gullibility of people. Your translation wouldn't be inspired; however, it would probably fool people. I do not know if God would reveal to someone personally that they are reading an errant Bible or not. That is up to God. I do know that God led me to use the NASB and YLT versions (the most accurate modern translations) instead of a dynamic translation. He has also led me to study Greek and Hebrew in order to understand the original language that the Bible was written in better. I can't speak for anyone else.
(04-02-2012 12:23 PM)Reactor Wrote:  Have you ever tested your IQ in a specialist or with an online test perhaps?

I'm pretty average.

IIRC, it was 136.
(04-02-2012 11:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you considered the possibility that God has predestined you to believe in him even though he doesn't truly exist? Tongue

If He doesn't exist, then He couldn't predestine me.
(04-02-2012 03:27 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  But if there is no free will then the idea we can sin and choose to take Jesus into our hearts is redundant as we have no choice in the matter. God made the choice for us and are just following a script laid out by god before we existed.

Without free will god has made some people purely to end up in hell through no fault or choices of their own. Which goes back to my point about sending Jesus to earth being pointless as no one chooses to follow him. God made that choice for them.
It would also shows that god is needlessly cruel as he is intentionally creating people to be sent to hell, how can God be just, if he intentionally does that as part of a plan?. As the condemned never had a chance to begin with.

The plan wasn't conceived after humans were conceived nor was it before. The plan WAS humanity. The plan was from the beginning of infinity (sic). Why this was God's plan I don't know. But, the plan was for Jesus to be a salvation for humanity.

Now, if this was the plan... and God is omnipotent... it makes sense that this plan HAD to be fulfilled.
(04-02-2012 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 11:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Have you considered the possibility that God has predestined you to believe in him even though he doesn't truly exist? Tongue

Can God create a world in which He doesn't exist?

Yes. I mean... if He's omnipotent, then there is no reason why He can't.
(04-02-2012 10:20 PM)kim Wrote:  Expletive. Dodgy
Ok Kingsy... a last post from me.... since we finally met Queeny and all. Shy
*****

"Eternal fires of Hell." "Damned for eternity." "Live with Jesus for eternity."

What is the meaning of this word "eternity"? Is it not the same before the beginning, as well as after?

Should not "eternity" be a timeless thing... no beginning... no end... ?

I just ask because Theists who accept evolution and even the big bang, attribute the big bang to God, which is fine by me, as long as we can get along with our lives.
Yet, they keep asking what there was before the big bang.

Isn't eternity big enough for them?

Do they perceive my big bang and my universe to be somehow bigger than their God? Is that what offends them about my atheism? Is it big bang envy?

Cause that is a dick fight.
Rolleyes You guys gotta GET OVER that shit.

Well... it's just the understanding that everything finite has to have a beginning and an end. So, if we keep asking the question "What was before?" we eventually come to the conclusion of "I don't know." or "God". Since God is infinite, He simply always existed and constructed the science of creation of the universe.

As for eternity, yes it is infinite. No beginning or end. It's much like "nothing". What does "nothing" look like? Not darkness; nothing. It is an infinite concept.
(05-02-2012 09:33 PM)Jasrace Wrote:  Other religions have books that are supposedly divinely inspired.
What's so special about the Bible?

I'm pretty sure if you lived in Saudi Arabia, you'd be a Muslim. If you lived in rural India, you'd be a Hindu. Would it be your fault that you weren't a Christian? Is it fair for God to condemn people of other faiths, when a person religion is influenced by the culture in which they live?

Since I believe that I am elect, it is also my belief that God would reveal to me the truth. I believe this for others as well. I don't believe that location has an effect on the elect.
(06-02-2012 01:52 AM)Unreal Wrote:  This has been my whole problem. However.. If you serve another God, you are damned to hell for all eternity. WTF??

No, you are damned to hell if you aren't elect.
(06-02-2012 09:05 AM)lucradis Wrote:  I totally thought up a question after reading something but I can't remember what I was reading that made me think of it. I hope you read it, even though I think your attention is starting to wane as of recent. Can't really blame you.

Have you ever seen the movie Frailty?

It's a fantastic movie, but not one to watch with your kids.

It's relevant because it talks about god's chosen. A dad has a vision from god. God sent an angel to tell him what to do. He was supposed to take himself and his two sons on a killing spree. In secret mind you, as no one else was allowed to know.
They would be given targets and tools and then they would go out... get the targets.... and kill them. There's more to the story than that, but I don't want to spoil the story, and the rest isn't relevant anyways.

I was wondering if you would kill for god? You know if god told you to kill people he considered demons, would you do it?
And would you include your son if god told you to?

Dude, I own that movie. I love it.

Anyway, I would need God or an angel to tell me face to face to do something like that. My faith is strong, but I have no God-given desire to ever kill anyone.

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