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15-02-2012, 09:59 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-02-2012 09:49 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(15-02-2012 09:44 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Without sin, Jesus' sacrifice would be pointless.

Which leads me to one of my all time favorite quotes....

"If you don't sin Jesus died for nothing"

D

And, this is a very true statement.

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15-02-2012, 10:04 AM
 
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-02-2012 09:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-02-2012 09:49 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(15-02-2012 09:44 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Without sin, Jesus' sacrifice would be pointless.

Which leads me to one of my all time favorite quotes....

"If you don't sin Jesus died for nothing"

D

And, this is a very true statement.

AND it looks GREAT on a Tie!

http://www.zazzle.com/if_you_dont_sin_je...3757229271
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15-02-2012, 10:12 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-02-2012 09:44 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Through the process of evolution (which God designed), your dog's biological process required him to fart. Because God designed this biological process, God predestined your dog to fart.

I didn't mean the farting process in general. I mean that specific fart that happened in the forest. Is that part of god's plan? If yes, how is that fart relevant for anything? And what is the specific paradigm that cannot occur outside the reality of the coexistence of my dog's fart together with the Andromeda galaxy? How are meteor collisions happening in Andromeda relevant for Earth? Also: my decision to suppress a specific fart is part of god's plan or a sign of free will on my part?

Quote:Without sin, Jesus' sacrifice would be pointless.

Jesus's sacrifice is pointless with or without sin. God sacrifices himself to himself to persuade himself to loophole a rule created by him so that it can be broken and thus it becomes necessary for him to sacrifice himself to himself... etc etc. That plan is faulty even by rudimentary human standards. I can design an imperfect plan which is better than god's from any possible angle. I have engineering training. You tell me about god's motivation and I can come up with a much more efficient way to accomplish it.

If god enjoys pain and suffering, he lacks imagination and he's greatly incompetent. If he enjoys love and communion he messed up big time. If he wanted a purpose for Jesus, the Harry Potter saga has infinitely better inner consistency than the crap he came up with. I'll never understand how you cannot see through the bronze-age psychology behind all these myths.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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15-02-2012, 10:19 AM
 
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-02-2012 10:12 AM)Malleus Wrote:  If god enjoys pain and suffering, he lacks imagination and he's greatly incompetent. If he enjoys love and communion he messed up big time.

Ding Ding Ding, and we have a winner!

Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner!!

But what i THINK i am getting from KC is that THE PLAN was more important than communion, genocide, slavery or anything else. That he's got such a hard on for this ONE idea, that he abandon all reason and went for broke with it....he was ALL IN!

SO KC, whats the magic punchline to the plan? What is the end result of this thing he's done?

D
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15-02-2012, 10:56 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Ok got it. These rules are there to define when someone sins and what is consider a sin.

But did these rules picked randomly? Do they relate with morality? Do they relate with anything else?

(note that what is considered moral depends from: time,region,culture,etc
eg: Pederasty in ancient Greece)
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15-02-2012, 02:05 PM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2012 02:09 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-02-2012 10:12 AM)Malleus Wrote:  I didn't mean the farting process in general. I mean that specific fart that happened in the forest. Is that part of god's plan? If yes, how is that fart relevant for anything?

The only reason dog farted is because of the biological process that God designed. The farting is a result of that process, and in order for that process to be realized, farting had to happen.

Quote:And what is the specific paradigm that cannot occur outside the reality of the coexistence of my dog's fart together with the Andromeda galaxy? How are meteor collisions happening in Andromeda relevant for Earth?

None. God is omnipresent. Not everything that happens in God's plan affects everyone or even humanity.

Quote:Also: my decision to suppress a specific fart is part of god's plan or a sign of free will on my part?

The desire to not fart at that time was not a choice made by you.

Quote:Jesus's sacrifice is pointless with or without sin. God sacrifices himself to himself to persuade himself to loophole a rule created by him so that it can be broken and thus it becomes necessary for him to sacrifice himself to himself... etc etc.

The plan for humanity always was. It's never not existed; which is why Jesus was the fulfillment of that plan.


(15-02-2012 10:19 AM)Denicio Wrote:  But what i THINK i am getting from KC is that THE PLAN was more important than communion, genocide, slavery or anything else. That he's got such a hard on for this ONE idea, that he abandon all reason and went for broke with it....he was ALL IN!

Yes. But, since God is perfect and infinite, so is the plan. Remember the perspective of the you and the wood.

Quote:SO KC, whats the magic punchline to the plan? What is the end result of this thing he's done?

We know what it is for humanity (which also depends on your eschatology). As for what it is after humanity, if there is an "after", I don't know. Humanity will not end; but will either be in heaven or hell for eternity.

Since God is omnipresent, we don't have a clue if he's doing something outside of humanity that we will never know about that is in accordance to His plan.

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15-02-2012, 02:14 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Oh boy.... King, your drinking too much from the punch bowl. Slow down.

Quote:KC, the more you describe The Plan to me, the crazier your Christian POV is becoming. Its a wild and warped world you have crated for your 'Christian self'.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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15-02-2012, 02:14 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-02-2012 10:56 AM)Reactor Wrote:  Ok got it. These rules are there to define when someone sins and what is consider a sin.

But did these rules picked randomly? Do they relate with morality? Do they relate with anything else?

(note that what is considered moral depends from: time,region,culture,etc
eg: Pederasty in ancient Greece)


Acting outside the commandments given to us by God. Or, acting outside relative morality (this differs from person to person - a sin for one couldn't be a sin for another).

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15-02-2012, 02:19 PM
 
RE: Ask a Theist!
With all this farty talk.....i wonder....

Was god Omni fragrent?
Did Jesus fart?
Did his 12 boyfriends laugh when he farted?

D
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15-02-2012, 03:28 PM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2012 03:56 PM by Malleus.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(15-02-2012 02:05 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Quote:And what is the specific paradigm that cannot occur outside the reality of the coexistence of my dog's fart together with the Andromeda galaxy? How are meteor collisions happening in Andromeda relevant for Earth?

None. God is omnipresent. Not everything that happens in God's plan affects everyone or even humanity.

Sure, but there is one plan, right? And that plan cannot happen without BOTH my dog's fart that never affected anybody and the existence of Andromeda, right?

Quote:The desire to not fart at that time was not a choice made by you.

So god is not only deeply concerned with the specific timing of my farts, but he takes a special interest in the proper functioning of my sphincters and in my brain-to-ass connection. Do you realize how ridiculous you allow your principles to get?

Quote:The plan for humanity always was. It's never not existed; which is why Jesus was the fulfillment of that plan.

Sure, but it's still a stupid plan and I do not care what his final purpose is, I can make a better plan and that makes me superior to your god. I don't care what god gets from this plan, I can achieve the same results with much less resources and more impressive results with the same resources.

With god's omni-powers I could simply and instantly wish the success of the plan into existence. With limited superpowers I can achieve better results faster. Your god has the brain limitations of a bronze age man, that's why his plan is a joke to any modern thinker.

Apparently god's plan right now is for me to waste your time. Whatever you're doing for god, you must be doing it wrong because god would rather keep you busy with me. Now you have to figure out if I just pissed you off or if god is pissing himself off by making me piss you off and you to get pissed. Either that or he decides to make you unpissable, or pissed without the will to admit it. Praise the lord for creating somebody as brilliant as myself to push your buttons AND insult him at the same time. Your god is a masochist because he's having this conversation with himself.

Somebody please stop me. So much fun should be illegal. Big Grin

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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