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17-02-2012, 03:20 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-02-2012 03:15 PM)Altemark Wrote:  
(17-02-2012 02:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Quote:Does god "play by the rules" he created? Like gravity. Can he defy them?

No. He is unlimited in His power.
If unlike Egor you don't make your crap up then where did you get the answer to the question I quoted?


{Ok, I haven't been able to read all the pages yet, perhaps you've already answered that, in this case I apologize. I'll (try to) read the thread later.}

I meant in terms of creating my own theology. My theology is shared by theologians.

In terms of your question, it's in regards to God being omnipotent. God is not limited by human restraints. This is defined through the Bible.

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17-02-2012, 03:21 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-02-2012 02:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-02-2012 02:49 PM)kim Wrote:  So, if forgiveness is for the elect ... I have to reiterate; what must forgiveness mean at all, to anyone other than to the elect?

This goes back to my views on atonement; which, I have just learned (this morning, actually) have been redefined.

I believe that atonement for sins (Christ's sacrifice) is sufficient for all but only applied to the elect. This used to be called "unlimited limited atonement"; however, now it's called "limited atonement".

The other views are:

unlimited atonement - Christ's sacrifice is for everyone (what Arminians believe)
[old] limited atonement - Christ's sacrifice was only for the elect (this view is only held by ultra-Calvinist)

In short, the forgiveness is sufficient for the non-elect, but it is not applied to them.

But what do you mean by sufficient?
Forgiveness is sufficient for what purpose if it is not applied to all subjected to the same predetermined world?

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17-02-2012, 03:33 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-02-2012 03:20 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-02-2012 03:15 PM)Altemark Wrote:  
(17-02-2012 02:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Quote:Does god "play by the rules" he created? Like gravity. Can he defy them?

No. He is unlimited in His power.
If unlike Egor you don't make your crap up then where did you get the answer to the question I quoted?


{Ok, I haven't been able to read all the pages yet, perhaps you've already answered that, in this case I apologize. I'll (try to) read the thread later.}

I meant in terms of creating my own theology. My theology is shared by theologians.

In terms of your question, it's in regards to God being omnipotent. God is not limited by human restraints. This is defined through the Bible.

And how do you know the Bible is actually correct and not a "made-up crap" created by someone like Egor?

Disregard my old posts.
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17-02-2012, 03:34 PM (This post was last modified: 17-02-2012 03:36 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-02-2012 03:21 PM)kim Wrote:  But what do you mean by sufficient?
Forgiveness is sufficient for what purpose if it is not applied to all subjected to the same predetermined world?

It means that the atonement's power isn't limited. It's power could still save the non-elect, but it is only allied to the elect.

I'm trying to think of a good analogy on the fly... not the best, but here goes:

I have paint.

There are two cars - and old one and new one.

I choose to paint the new car. I choose to not paint the old car.

Now, is the paint sufficient enough to be used on the old car? Yes, but it was only applied to the new car.
(17-02-2012 03:33 PM)Altemark Wrote:  And how do you know the Bible is actually correct and not a "made-up crap" created by someone like Egor?

Because he claims Christianity and Biblical authority.

His beliefs are in stark contrast to what the Bible teaches.

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17-02-2012, 03:52 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-02-2012 03:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-02-2012 03:21 PM)kim Wrote:  But what do you mean by sufficient?
Forgiveness is sufficient for what purpose if it is not applied to all subjected to the same predetermined world?

It means that the atonement's power isn't limited. It's power could still save the non-elect, but it is only allied to the elect.

I'm trying to think of a good analogy on the fly... not the best, but here goes:

I have paint.

There are two cars - and old one and new one.

I choose to paint the new car. I choose to not paint the old car.

Now, is the paint sufficient enough to be used on the old car? Yes, but it was only applied to the new car.

So, forgiveness is meaningless.
Why the ruse?

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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17-02-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Does God hear the prayers of a praying mantis?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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17-02-2012, 03:58 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-02-2012 03:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-02-2012 03:33 PM)Altemark Wrote:  And how do you know the Bible is actually correct and not a "made-up crap" created by someone like Egor?

Because he claims Christianity and Biblical authority.

His beliefs are in stark contrast to what the Bible teaches.

I'm not really interested on why Egor is wrong buuut why the Bible is right.

Disregard my old posts.
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17-02-2012, 03:59 PM (This post was last modified: 17-02-2012 04:00 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-02-2012 03:52 PM)kim Wrote:  So, forgiveness is meaningless.
Why the ruse?

Well no. Something that's unobtainable isn't meaningless.
(17-02-2012 03:58 PM)Altemark Wrote:  I'm not really interested on why Egor is wrong buuut why the Bible is right.

Ground Rule #3

In short, because I'm a Christian.

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17-02-2012, 04:19 PM
 
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-02-2012 03:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Something that's unobtainable isn't meaningless.

Not only is it NOT meaningless...its the shit they were mining for in Avitar (movie with the blue people).
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17-02-2012, 04:33 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(17-02-2012 03:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-02-2012 03:52 PM)kim Wrote:  So, forgiveness is meaningless.
Why the ruse?

Well no. Something that's unobtainable isn't meaningless.

The only meaning something unobtainable might have for me, is that I can not have it. If I can not have something, I don't care about it; it's meaning is irrelevant.

If something has no conscious connection to me, my life, my existence, my experience, my future, and finally my death; it is meaningless to me. It is irrelevant.

It's kind of like your babies and mentally disabled being elect, isn't it? If you don't know... if you can't obtain the knowledge...
   

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