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10-12-2011, 12:12 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-12-2011 10:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-12-2011 10:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  How does God communicate with His chosen?

The Holy Spirit is our medium to the Father.

For some reason, that brings this to mind:

[Image: monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-1974--645-75.jpg]

King Arthur: I am your king.
Peasant Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Peasant Woman: Well, how'd you become king, then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.
Dennis the Peasant: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis the Peasant: You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

Arthur: [grabs Dennis] Shut up! Will you shut up?!
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: [shakes Dennis] Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Arthur: Bloody Peasant!
Dennis: Ooh, what a giveaway!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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10-12-2011, 12:18 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I no longer believe that KC is a human.... too many questions too fast.. gotta be a Vulcan.. alright new questions.....


1.) Do Vulcans need a saviour like us Humans?

2.) Has Jesus ever visited the planet Vulcan?

3.) How long have YOU been a Vulcan?

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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10-12-2011, 12:26 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2011 12:29 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-12-2011 12:06 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  1. Aren't god's chosen generally highlighted for their sinful lives? In the idea of Calvinism where someone is holy for the sake of being holy. haven't many of the focal point characters in stories done much worse things than the people around them. What about being christian makes someone more moral when those around them who transgress for trifling things are punished while the sinful "chosen" are praised and rewarded?

2. Many stories throughout the old testament discuss events that happened in Egypt which could never have happened. Such as Joseph's excessive con game that rewarded him all of the wealth of Egypt. Why add stories of the utterly impossible, especially when there is nothing to learn from them?

3. Why is one of the most successful plans of Abraam and Jacob convincing someone to sleep with their wife (who is their sister) in order to gain wealth and then get them in trouble with god? Can this in any time be seen as anything more than cowardly?

4. Why do you study the book when the book was outdated 200 years after it's formation? Prior to the council of Nicaea christianity was a personal belief in which people had a common cultural view, and people chose to own stories they connected with. People gloss over any stories within the organized book of stories that they don't like. Why can't culture be a better teacher than a book which often highlighted the worser parables.

1) Yes. God's chosen are just as despicable as anyone. They are just redeemed. Why God chose to work through these people and their actions, I don't know. The typical softball answer is that God wanted to show His glory through them, but I'm not convinced that is a satisfactory answer. My personal belief is that God uses their sins to enact His will, but again, not a very concrete answer.

2) I honestly don't have an answer to that question. I'm really sorry.

3) It was all done for God's plan. Maybe to segregate His people? Maybe to create opposition for His people so that His future plan could take effect? I really don't have a good answer for you besides "God's will". These questions refer back to the morality of God and why God preordained seemingly immoral acts. I'll refer you back to what I said about God's morality - that it is His own for His purpose so that His plan can be fulfilled.

I know these answers are probably not satiating you. Sorry, Lilith : /

4) I have a personal belief in the Christian God. I believe His instructions for us is in the Bible. As cliched as this is, my acceptance of the Bible is based on faith.
(10-12-2011 12:18 PM)ddrew Wrote:  I no longer believe that KC is a human.... too many questions too fast.. gotta be a Vulcan.. alright new questions.....


1.) Do Vulcans need a saviour like us Humans?

2.) Has Jesus ever visited the planet Vulcan?

3.) How long have YOU been a Vulcan?

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) I TAUGHT Spock. He was a cute boy. Turned into a bit of a prick, though.
(10-12-2011 12:12 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(10-12-2011 10:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-12-2011 10:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  How does God communicate with His chosen?

The Holy Spirit is our medium to the Father.

For some reason, that brings this to mind:

[Image: monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-1974--645-75.jpg]

King Arthur: I am your king.
Peasant Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Peasant Woman: Well, how'd you become king, then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.
Dennis the Peasant: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis the Peasant: You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

Arthur: [grabs Dennis] Shut up! Will you shut up?!
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: [shakes Dennis] Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Arthur: Bloody Peasant!
Dennis: Ooh, what a giveaway!

XD

You're killing me the Monty Python references today.

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10-12-2011, 12:54 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Oh hey! Interesting thread you have here Smile Here are my questions...

1) Other religions have their own Gods as well. On what basis can you discount their Gods such that your God is the only God?

2) From past debates, I get the impression that God does things the overcomplicated way. The common argument I hear that explains this is usually along the lines of "he works in mysterious ways". So... what is bounding God from simplifying things? Or can you provide a strong argument to explain this?

3) Which parts of the Bible do we take literally/figuratively?

4) On what basis are you certain that God exists? The whole foundation of religion is extremely faith based. Why believe in something for the sake of believing?

5) If God is indeed perfect, and the Bible is the word of God... explain biblical contradictions/inaccuracies.

6) Is there any physical evidence that God exists? Some say there aren't, but God has to be found through introspection, within ourselves. How does this make any sense at all? Can't God just reveal himself to us like how he did in the Bible?

7) Do you believe in miracles? Why aren't miracles scrutinised by the scientific community as a whole? What is there to lose if such events are indeed miracles?

8) Is there any point to all such religious procedures just to enjoy an afterlife? Why would you believe an afterlife exists? Even so, they are a thousand and one afterlifes, so how sure are you that the Christian heaven is the correct afterlife?

9) What if religion was a test by God, to see how we use the gift of knowledge and wisdom to differentiate the real from the illusory, and not blindly worshipping him?

Thanks for your time Smile

Welcome to science. You're gonna like it here - Phil Plait

Have you ever tried taking a comfort blanket away from a small child? - DLJ
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10-12-2011, 12:54 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Okay now for a serious question...

From my understanding of Jesus and what his role was is this.... He was God incarnated as a man. Who's purpose was to be that perfect sacrifice and atonement for the sins of all mankind of past, present, and future. Believe that he is the truth, the saviour and repent your sins and you will be saved. Your name gets written into the book of life. Everlasting life in heaven for all eternity. This is the only way into heaven according to what I've read and heard them preach at that Chirstian ministry.

Now my question is, what happens to all of those that the word of Jesus never reaches before they die? The Bible is not clear on what happens. For example the millions of people that follow other Gods. They follow other Gods because they were born into that culture and it was indoctrined into their education and upbringing. They live their lives following the laws of their God that they believe in. They never heard of Jesus. They having lived a good life as their society deems acceptable dies of old age.

Now according to the Bible... these people never came to accept Jesus as their lord and saviour. The Bible clearly states that if you do not accept Jesus as your lord and saviour you will be condemned and cast into the lake of fire for all eternity. What about these people that I described in the paragraph above? They never got the opportunity to know who Jesus was. They are going to stand at the pearl gates and be told their name is not written in the book life and be very confused.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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10-12-2011, 01:03 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Gotta take a shower before my son wakes up from his nap. I'll tackle the next round of questions in a bit. Thank you for you patience, guys.

Smile

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10-12-2011, 01:13 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-12-2011 01:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Gotta take a shower before my son wakes up from his nap. I'll tackle the next round of questions in a bit. Thank you for you patience, guys.

Smile

Dodgy ...erm hrm...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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10-12-2011, 01:20 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2011 01:23 PM by Chas.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-12-2011 10:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Chas Wrote:How does God communicate with His chosen?

The Holy Spirit is our medium to the Father.

Not very helpful. How do you receive the data?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-12-2011, 01:58 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2011 02:13 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-12-2011 12:54 PM)robotworld Wrote:  Oh hey! Interesting thread you have here Smile Here are my questions...

1) Other religions have their own Gods as well. On what basis can you discount their Gods such that your God is the only God?

2) From past debates, I get the impression that God does things the overcomplicated way. The common argument I hear that explains this is usually along the lines of "he works in mysterious ways". So... what is bounding God from simplifying things? Or can you provide a strong argument to explain this?

3) Which parts of the Bible do we take literally/figuratively?

4) On what basis are you certain that God exists? The whole foundation of religion is extremely faith based. Why believe in something for the sake of believing?

5) If God is indeed perfect, and the Bible is the word of God... explain biblical contradictions/inaccuracies.

6) Is there any physical evidence that God exists? Some say there aren't, but God has to be found through introspection, within ourselves. How does this make any sense at all? Can't God just reveal himself to us like how he did in the Bible?

7) Do you believe in miracles? Why aren't miracles scrutinised by the scientific community as a whole? What is there to lose if such events are indeed miracles?

8) Is there any point to all such religious procedures just to enjoy an afterlife? Why would you believe an afterlife exists? Even so, they are a thousand and one afterlifes, so how sure are you that the Christian heaven is the correct afterlife?

9) What if religion was a test by God, to see how we use the gift of knowledge and wisdom to differentiate the real from the illusory, and not blindly worshipping him?

Thanks for your time Smile

1) Faith. Faith alone. I'm not going to give some babbling answer. The only other answer would be personal feelings or experiences.

2) I've alluded to this several time with my other answers. His plan, whatever it is, required Him to do it the way He chose to do it. If He didn't do it a certain way, minutia would have eventually altered His plan. And since altering His plan is impossible, the way God enacts His plan is perfect.

3) It depends on the book. The context and audience has to be considered before we can decide what is taken literally and figuratively.

4) It's based on my personal experiences in my life.

5) Which? Many "contradictions" have been reconciled. The others may be subject to translation flaws (as is the case with many modern translations). This conclusions starts a slippery slope, though. And then, it comes down to a matter of faith again.

6) I'm physical evidence that God exists. But, I know that's not an acceptable answer. So no... there is no physical evidence for God. And, I don't know why He doesn't reveal Himself physically like He used to. I can't answer for God : /

7) Yes. And, I don't know. And, scientific reliance, maybe?

8) I believe because of my Christian beliefs and what is taught in my holy book.

9) Interesting concept, but I don't think God would use a religion that is based on Him as a guise to not believe in Him. That's a bit of contradictory logic.
(10-12-2011 12:54 PM)ddrew Wrote:  Okay now for a serious question...

From my understanding of Jesus and what his role was is this.... He was God incarnated as a man. Who's purpose was to be that perfect sacrifice and atonement for the sins of all mankind of past, present, and future. Believe that he is the truth, the saviour and repent your sins and you will be saved. Your name gets written into the book of life. Everlasting life in heaven for all eternity. This is the only way into heaven according to what I've read and heard them preach at that Chirstian ministry.

This is Arminian based Christian theology. I believe there is no choice in salvation.

Quote:Now my question is, what happens to all of those that the word of Jesus never reaches before they die? The Bible is not clear on what happens. For example the millions of people that follow other Gods. They follow other Gods because they were born into that culture and it was indoctrined into their education and upbringing. They live their lives following the laws of their God that they believe in. They never heard of Jesus. They having lived a good life as their society deems acceptable dies of old age.

Arminians reconcile this by citing Melchizedek (he knew of God - seemingly without explanation), Romans 1:20, and Psalms 19. They argue that no one has an excuse to not choose God because He is evident in creation.

Calvinists use these verses as supplementation. Calvinists believe if someone is elect, then they cannot deny the will of God. God will reveal Himself some way to them such as He did with Melchizedek or start their regeneration through the observation of the surrounding world.

Quote:Now according to the Bible... these people never came to accept Jesus as their lord and saviour. The Bible clearly states that if you do not accept Jesus as your lord and saviour you will be condemned and cast into the lake of fire for all eternity. What about these people that I described in the paragraph above? They never got the opportunity to know who Jesus was. They are going to stand at the pearl gates and be told their name is not written in the book life and be very confused.

Again, this is yet another flaw in the Arminian theology. If you put on your Calvin glasses, you will see how this is reconciled.
(10-12-2011 01:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-12-2011 10:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Chas Wrote:How does God communicate with His chosen?

The Holy Spirit is our medium to the Father.

Not very helpful. How do you receive the data?

Hard to explain.

A feeling. A knowing. A comfort. An assurance. A sudden revelation.

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10-12-2011, 02:38 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(10-12-2011 12:12 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(10-12-2011 10:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-12-2011 10:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  How does God communicate with His chosen?

The Holy Spirit is our medium to the Father.

For some reason, that brings this to mind:

[Image: monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-1974--645-75.jpg]

[...]

It's funnier when you see it:



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