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07-03-2012, 10:02 AM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2012 10:26 AM by TalladegaTom.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(07-03-2012 09:09 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  - logical fallacies really get under my skin.

But you believe in the most illogical thing going? God.
As I understand your god, it operates in a most illogical manner.
That should really bother you.

After putting all the pieces together, the only logical conclusion is that a god does not exist based on everything we see and know to be true at the present time.
Faith is vacant.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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07-03-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
You seem to have a lot of "personal beliefs" yet you also seem judgemental of other views?
Does someone from another "branch" have a chance to get into heaven? Or do you have to believe in Calvinism / Reformed Theology?

Why did God invent Islam. And why do many of them feel the same as you, and are as confident in their beliefs?

Also, as a "chosen" do you believe that your prayers work?
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07-03-2012, 10:28 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(07-03-2012 10:18 AM)Dust Wrote:  You seem to have a lot of "personal beliefs" yet you also seem judgemental of other views?

I challenge other theological beliefs with scripture. I also ask them to refute mine in the same way. I have found out that the doctrines that I subscribe to are the most reconciled.

Quote:Does someone from another "branch" have a chance to get into heaven? Or do you have to believe in Calvinism / Reformed Theology?

God isn't a box. Of course other denominations can be elect... they may just not understand that they are. This is mostly evident with Arminians and their beliefs.

Quote:Why did God invent Islam. And why do many of them feel the same as you, and are as confident in their beliefs?

I don't know why He allowed different religions in the same way I don't know why He allows and orchestrates evil. Everything that is is part of His plan.

Also, there is no other explanation in the confidence except faith.

Quote:Also, as a "chosen" do you believe that your prayers work?

Nothing can affect God's predestined decision. Prayers are for the pray-er; not God.

Edit:
Quick reference on EC here.
(07-03-2012 10:02 AM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  
(07-03-2012 09:09 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  - logical fallacies really get under my skin.

But you believe in the most illogical thing going? God.
As I understand your god, it operates in a most illogical manner.
That should really bother you.

After putting all the pieces together, the only logical conclusion is that a god does not exist based on everything we see and know to be true at the present time.
Faith is vacant.

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07-03-2012, 11:42 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(07-03-2012 10:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I challenge other theological beliefs with scripture. I also ask them to refute mine in the same way. I have found out that the doctrines that I subscribe to are the most reconciled.
What are you challenging scripture with? You do realize that the bible is an imperfect book written by imperfect people in an imperfect language with a very imprecise grammar. After it was authored that way, it was manually copied thousands of times by other people, some of which (it has been proven) didn't even know how to read, but simply "drew" the letters as they saw them, making mistakes in the range of tens of thousands.

Then, from the quite larger list of books on the same topic at that time, a group of people who did NOT share your belief cherry-picked the ones they saw fit and burned the rest. Finally, as time passed by, the people in control (also not sharing your beliefs), started adjusting texts to make them "more clear" (a.i. to make the bible fit what they already believed regardless of what it originally said on the topic)

Don't you see a problem that you believe in that particular god because the bible says so and, at the same time you believe the bible because it's the word of god?

Also: about god's "perfect" plan. If I can change ANYTHING about that plan and make it better, it's not a perfect plan by any standards, human or not.

I choose to go back in time and have all the bible written originally in Greek (so very little if anything gets lost in translation) on *really* good materials by someone with really clear handwritting so at least one original copy makes it all the way to the age of copy machines and that way the message gets preserved as I (god) meant it. That is my one change to the plan and my plan is already better. By the end of the year, I can bring you one change per day, all objectively improving the plan. I won't be done improving it either, but it will by all means be better.

Repeating that god's standards are different doesn't make it true. Either perfection is objective and then all standards apply to everything, including god and in that case his plan is not perfect, or perfection is what god says is perfection and in that case god is not objectively perfect because I can imagine a god that is superior to yours.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

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07-03-2012, 12:27 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2012 12:48 PM by TalladegaTom.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
You would agree that the world would have less hate if we did not have religion to drive some of it?
Big Grin




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08-03-2012, 11:06 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Malleus, I get what you keep saying, but it doesn't change the fact that everything is based on relative human understanding.

(07-03-2012 12:27 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  You would agree that the world would have less hate if we did not have religion to drive some of it?

Can't view the video. I'll have to watch it when I get home.

But yes, I can agree with your statement; however, it is another logical fallacy. Being religious doesn't cause hate. Being human causes hate. Being religious isn't a prerequisite for being human. It's the other way around.

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08-03-2012, 12:21 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-03-2012 11:06 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Can't view the video. I'll have to watch it when I get home.

No worries. Note the smiley. It was meant as humor. Everyone can put the flamethrowers down OK? It was made by a theist. Maybe you should stop over there and set him straight! Wink

(08-03-2012 11:06 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But yes, I can agree with your statement; however, it is another logical fallacy. Being religious doesn't cause hate. Being human causes hate. Being religious isn't a prerequisite for being human. It's the other way around.

Eh, jump down to #4 - Determining Causation from that wiki link you provided.

The folks at Westboro are naturally hateful? Nah. They learned all that anti gay stuff from religion.
I suspect, that a correlation between hate and religion could be demonstrated statistically by several methods if it has not been done so already.




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08-03-2012, 01:10 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(08-03-2012 11:06 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Malleus, I get what you keep saying, but it doesn't change the fact that everything is based on relative human understanding.

No, It's not. Now it's your turn. Say "Yes it is" because when you even bother to answer me, you don't adress my points but go "Nu-huh". If that's your new level of debate, bring it on.

No it's not. You're it!

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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08-03-2012, 01:59 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
I dunno aut sayin religion is a cause for hate. People say that videogames are a cause of school shootings too.
I personally feel that yes there are stupid people that are incredibly easily led and would find the rules put forth by any religion to be tenets they HAVE to follow, but I also believe that those same people would find somethin else if it weren't for religion. They would find something else that also ties in with their own particular views or fears.
Just like I play games all the time where I'm blowing mother fuckers heads off. Yet I don't own a gun. I also have a zero kill record.
Oddly enough I used to be extremely violent. Before I played anything that wasn't Mario.
Then you get fuckers that say te awful book catcher in the rye makes then shoot musicians in the face. I just thought the book sucked.
People always seem to see the message that they want to see.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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08-03-2012, 02:55 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
People form their own particular views or fears based on what is taught to them.
"...there are stupid people that are incredibly easily led..."

Reminds me of a scene from the movie Men in Black. Wink





It takes some system or some idea to lead them.
Religion takes advantage of that full time.
Hate for gays around the world is almost exclusively religion based.
Religion generates hate. No question about it.

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