Ask a Young Earth Creationist
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02-05-2011, 12:15 PM
Ask a Young Earth Creationist
Hey guys, I'm new to this forum, and as you may have noticed. I'm a Young Earth Creationist. I am going to put myself on the hotseat and let you guys ask me whatever questions you want. I may not be able to go back and forth with some people because I expect to have a lot of questions asked, so if I skip over your reply after I answer your question please don't be offended. I also need breaks at times so there may be a few days or so where I don't post anything in this thread. The reason why I have to divert my attention away at times is because I'm normally in at least 3 to 6 online debates at once, and between school, social life, etc. I don't really always have time to sit down to debate with everyone. Anyways, ask away!
I'd also like to add. Please be polite. Tongue Thanks.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

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02-05-2011, 12:33 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
Normally when I've spoken with creationists, they rely on arguing against evolution, the big bang, etc. I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind giving us a taste of your current position and some of the arguments for Young Earth Creationism. I (and I'd bet that a few others) really have a limited understanding of the YEC position.

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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02-05-2011, 12:41 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
It's hard to ask questions when one doesn't know what kind of creationist you are. So:

1. Do you accept that when you have a replicator that does copying mistakes, has a high enough copying fidelity and can affect it's own odds of being copied, evolution is inevitable?

2. Assuming you're a christian creationist: what makes you accept the bible's story, but not accept evolution, which is widely accepted and matches observations: is scientific?

3. Do you mix evolution with topics such as the birth of life and the beginning of the universe?


I'm gonna faint when I see this thread tomorrow with ten new pages. :F Stupid time zones, I wish I had a private jet so I could stay in this time forever and never grow old.

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02-05-2011, 01:25 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2011 01:33 PM by Spectre.)
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
I doubt that you really believe that you have a limited understanding of the YEC position. I'm sure that all of you read talkorigins which says a lot about Young Earth Creationism. I am also familiar with the arguments that talkorigins uses and I have no issues with providing rebuttals to them.

I have heard statements from both YEC and atheists that say "All the evidence points to the Earth being _____ years old. There is no way to reconcile it." No matter what side of the debate you are on, you probably ran into someone who was that dogmatic to outright make such an assertion. Here is the bottom line. You can make the argument of whether or not there are moral absolutes. However, absolutes do exist. There is a truth, there is a first cause, there is a way in which our universe began. While we can speculate how we came into existence, life's questions "Who am I?" "Why am I here?" "What is purpose?" can not be answered in a laboratory. However, whichever view you accept will greatly affect the answers to these questions.

How is do you decide on which world view you accept? Well, in a lot of cases, your world view is determined by your upbringing or your experiences in life. Normally when you look at the evidence your world view has already been decided on. The answer is the way that you look at the evidence will be determined by your world view. However, to say that all the evidence points to a certain age of the earth or universe, I consider to be an illogical implication no matter which side of the spectrum you are on. Both sides have evidence and theories for their cases. The question is, which is the correct interpretation?

Creationists Scientists are usually heavily scrutinized by both some secular scientists, by atheist sites, and by some atheists themselves who like to go debate on creationist pages. Contrary to popular belief, creationists do research, and they do sometimes publish in secular journals. I don't hold the position that either type of journal should be considered more reliable. But one asks "Why don't we hear about breakthroughs in Creation research? They don't do research, they just watch what evolutionists research." Well, there is one thing that needs to be considered. Creation scientists do not have the government funding that a lot of secular scientists get to have. This does place a limit, as research is very expensive. The RATE Committee's research cost ICR around the ball park of one million dollars. The only reason why they were able to do this research was due to donations. So that is why you don't see quite as much research going on from the Creationist side, other than the fact that there are less Creation scientists out there than secular scientists.

I said at the beginning that The Bible's claim of a young earth is testable.(But I do not believe that the age of the earth can be empirically proven either way.) Creationists should be able to make predictions that can be validated by data. I'm going to list a couple of things that have occurred that I find to be significant.

First, Dr. Russell Humphreys' used the idea of a 6000 thousand year old universe and Uranus having a similar formation that was described for The Earth in The Bible as a basis for his model on predicting the magnetic fields of Uranus and Neptune two years before Voyager reached them. Secular cosmologists had the idea that Uranus and Neptune would have weak magnetic fields, or not have one at all. But their strength was within the realm of Dr. Humprheys' predictions. No numbers or any part of his model had to be changed when Voyager returned the data. Secular scientists came up with the dynamo theory in order to try and rectify this problem with their idea of an old universe.

As far as geology is concerned. I recommend watching one of the hour long lectures given at a convention for the RATE Committee. This is only an hour long speech so they didn't give all of the information but it does give you a summary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMy2IUeXJRI
(02-05-2011 12:41 PM)Kikko Wrote:  It's hard to ask questions when one doesn't know what kind of creationist you are. So:

1. Do you accept that when you have a replicator that does copying mistakes, has a high enough copying fidelity and can affect it's own odds of being copied, evolution is inevitable?

2. Assuming you're a christian creationist: what makes you accept the bible's story, but not accept evolution, which is widely accepted and matches observations: is scientific?

3. Do you mix evolution with topics such as the birth of life and the beginning of the universe?


I'm gonna faint when I see this thread tomorrow with ten new pages. :F Stupid
time zones, I wish I had a private jet so I could stay in this time forever and never grow old.

1. No, I don't accept that. There is no doubt that evolution happens and that it can happen via gene duplication. But when you talk about the variety of life coming from a single replicating cell, I just don't think that natural selection will allow such large changes over time.

2. The Bible is my first authority. I believe that the Earth was created in six literal 24 hour days. My experience validates that there is a Creator. I do not believe that the evolution model is as concrete as some would like to believe and that there are different ways to look at the evidence, such as fossils and layers. Some of that is covered in my post above.

3. It is advantageous to mix them all together, because it is easier to argue against abiogenesis and The Big Bang than it is to argue against evolution. I used to do that but then found that it really hurts my cause because it will often lead to just a debate of semantics. I normally clarify that I accept that evolution happens, but I reject common descent.


I want to add that I know that point one is a little muggy. When I said "evolution" in point one, I was implying evolution as in common descent, not as change over time.

Actually, never mind my last post. Tongue

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

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02-05-2011, 02:12 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
I was going to ask what part(s) of evolution you don't agree with: mutations; artificial/natural selection; speciation... but I think you already touched on that. It seems as though you don't buy the timescale of it all. Correct me if I am wrong.
Not going into the reasons we accept the earth is 'old' rather than 'new', it seems to me that natural selection could in fact create enough variation to cause a speciation event, because of the time scale. We have done some amazing things with artificial selection - we've changed organisms alot within 100 years, let alone 30,000. When you consider the proposed timescale - not 30,000 years, but a more incomprehensible 3,500,000,000 overall - natural selection could account for such changes over time. All you need is geographical separation and different environments and natural selection will get to work changing the organisms until the two populations can no longer interbreed - the common definition of a species.

But to actually ask you a question: You said you accept the bible as an authority, your first authority no less; why?

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

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02-05-2011, 02:14 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2011 02:26 PM by Observer.)
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
New to the YEC discussion, so, newbie questions:

What are fossils? How do the form? Have you ever found one yourself? Does the bible talk about fossils somewhere?

Observer

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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02-05-2011, 02:32 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2011 02:46 PM by Spectre.)
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 02:12 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  I was going to ask what part(s) of evolution you don't agree with: mutations; artificial/natural selection; speciation... but I think you already touched on that. It seems as though you don't buy the timescale of it all. Correct me if I am wrong.
Correct. I don't buy the secular evolutionary timescale or the secular chronological timescale.

(02-05-2011 02:12 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  But to actually ask you a question: You said you accept the bible as an authority, your first authority no less; why?
Most Christians actually don't think about this as often as they should.

I suppose you could say that I have always had an innate knowledge of God's existence. This knowledge of existence has given me strength over the 24 years of my life, particularly when I was diagnosed with cancer.(All the cancer is already gone.) I have read several versions of The Bible. I have also read some of the Qur'ran.(I'm still working on finishing it.) The fascinating thing about The Bible is that it attempts to answer all of the questions one would ask such as how the universe was made, the chronology of the characters, etc. I have never seen a religious book that is as detailed an intricate as The Bible. I can't really imagine my life without God to be honest.


(02-05-2011 02:14 PM)The_observer Wrote:  New to the YEC discussion, so, newbie questions:

What are fossils? How do the form? Have you ever found one yourself? Does the bible talk about fossils somewhere?
Ha, the only place I have seen fossils is in the museums, if that counts. Fossils typically formed when rapidly pushed underground, whether it be by floods, an avalanche, or a volcano eruption. Fossils can also form when there is a lack of oxygen. If they somehow become "mummified" they can also become fossils.


Sorry, I didn't see your last question. The Bible makes no specific mention of fossils but indeed some of the stories provide mechanisms for fossils to form.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

http://www.answersforhope.org
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02-05-2011, 02:58 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
Do you believe that your God is almighty?
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02-05-2011, 03:04 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 02:58 PM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  Do you believe that your God is almighty?
He isn't just my "god." I didn't create him, he created me. Smile

I would say that one who can stretch the stars with his fingers is mighty.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

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02-05-2011, 03:36 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2011 03:40 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
What about the many, many scientific proofs that the age of the earth ranges from hundreds of thousands to billions of years old?

For starters, the light of stars. In 1987, a supernova was observed from a star 1.66x10^21 m away. And since time = distance(d)/speed (of light,c), (1.66x10^21)/(3.00x10^8) = 5.53x10^12 seconds, we can determine that the supernova we observed occurred 175,000 years ago, hence, the universe is at least 175,000 years old. Are you one of those YECs who believe that for some reason, God started the light halfway to earth?

Ice layers, radioactive decay, plate tectonics, carbon dating, geology, cosmology, paleontology, chemistry, astrophysics, geophysics, and biology.

Every technique we have for obtaining and testing knowledge about the world around us is against you, while your view is based on an "innate feeling." You have to see the futility in this, yes?



And since you believe the earth is only 6,000 or so years old, you cannot believe in evolution since that's not nearly enough time. But micro-evolution is observed around us, and macro-evolution is simply micro-evolution stretched out over a long enough timeline.

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