Ask a Young Earth Creationist
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02-05-2011, 03:43 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 03:04 PM)Spectre Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 02:58 PM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  Do you believe that your God is almighty?
He isn't just my "god." I didn't create him, he created me. Smile

I would say that one who can stretch the stars with his fingers is mighty.
But what i meant with almighty is: capable of doing "anything". Like the many miracles that have occurred according to (literal interpretation of) the bible. For example if He can move aside the water so that Moses can cross the sea, then he should also be able to keep a Tsunami from getting to Japan if you know what i mean.

Also with "your" God i merely meant the God you believe in.
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02-05-2011, 03:51 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2011 04:02 PM by Spectre.)
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 02:58 PM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  But what i meant with almighty is: capable of doing "anything". Like the many miracles that have occurred according to (literal interpretation of) the bible. For example if He can move aside the water so that Moses can cross the sea, then he should also be able to keep a Tsunami from getting to Japan if you know what i mean.

Also with "your" God i merely meant the God you believe in.
Sure he could prevent the tsunami from hitting Japan. Yes, I believe he is capable of all miracles as described in The Bible. I figured your question was going in that direction. Wink


(02-05-2011 03:36 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  What about the many, many scientific proofs that the age of the earth ranges from hundreds of thousands to billions of years old?

For starters, the light of stars. In 1987, a supernova was observed from a star 1.66x10^21 m away. And since time = distance(d)/speed (of light,c), (1.66x10^21)/(3.00x10^8) = 5.53x10^12 seconds, we can determine that the supernova we observed occurred 175,000 years ago, hence, the universe is at least 175,000 years old. Are you one of those YECs who believe that for some reason, God started the light halfway to earth?

Ice layers, radioactive decay, plate tectonics, carbon dating, geology, cosmology, paleontology, chemistry, astrophysics, geophysics, and biology.

Every technique we have for obtaining and testing knowledge about the world around us is against you, while your view is based on an "innate feeling." You have to see the futility in this, yes?



And since you believe the earth is only 6,000 or so years old, you cannot believe in evolution since that's not nearly enough time. But micro-evolution is observed around us, and macro-evolution is simply micro-evolution stretched out over a long enough timeline.
Yes, the distant starlight problem has been a concern for Creationists. Some summarize that God created light in transit. While I am sure God is capable of doing this, there would be no way to confirm if he did or not, as The Bible doesn't really explain how he did it, except there was light when he called for it.

C-decay is another model that says that the speed of light may of been faster at one time, it is a solution that has similarities with inflation, the theory proposed to try to resolve the horizon and flatness problem in The Big Bang.

Dr. Jason Lisle is also working on a model called time-dialation.

There isn't really any particular model that I accept but I do know that light travel can be manipulated. This is one of the reasons why I am going into physics and astronomy, because I intend to present a model myself.

Yes, the interpretation of data is against me, but I could change the calibration for radiometric dating and "prove" that the Earth is 6,000 years old. I recommend looking into the RATE Committee's findings.

I wouldn't say that all of my beliefs are just based on a "innate feeling." Creationists have made predictions on the prospect of a young earth and it was validated later on. If we had government funding, we would certainly have more out there. Wink


I guess rather than saying the interpretation of the data is against me, I should say your interpretation of the data. Tongue

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

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02-05-2011, 04:12 PM
 
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 03:43 PM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  But what i meant with almighty is: capable of doing "anything". Like the many miracles that have occurred according to (literal interpretation of) the bible. For example if He can move aside the water so that Moses can cross the sea, then he should also be able to keep a Tsunami from getting to Japan if you know what i mean.

Also with "your" God i merely meant the God you believe in.

I'm YEC also, so I help out Spectre....

Believe it or not, the more I study creation the more I figure out that God followed the laws of physics because He is not a law breaker. What makes creation not understandable is because it was done before man committed the first sin.

Time minus sin equals eternity (infinity). So to understand the creation, you would have to determine what the laws of physics be like to make an eternal time-line work.

To give you some idea, here is a page I did on that very subject. You will have to read it more than once over a several day period before it starts to make sense. Some may get it right off. It's hard to put complicated things into layman terms.
FAQ about Eternity.

There is also stuff about time dilation in there. The eternity dimension actually works of that as you will read.
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02-05-2011, 04:43 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
Interesting topic.

(02-05-2011 03:51 PM)Spectre Wrote:  Yes, the distant starlight problem has been a concern for Creationists. Some summarize that God created light in transit. While I am sure God is capable of doing this, there would be no way to confirm if he did or not, as The Bible doesn't really explain how he did it, except there was light when he called for it.

I guess this is idea that I cannot swallow. The idea that to accept the Creation model, one has to accept the assumptions that cannot be proven one way or another (the light problem, perhaps the idea that fossils were placed by the devil to trick humans, etc.) I understand that all theories will most likely have to make assumptions, but those assumptions should be things that can be validated later. For example, Einstein's Theory of Relativity assumes that gravity was capable of bending light. This wasn't proven until later on during an eclipse.

From a scientific perspective, this is where the Creation model (for me) falls into the realm of failed theories.

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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02-05-2011, 06:47 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 04:43 PM)Glaucus Wrote:  Interesting topic.

(02-05-2011 03:51 PM)Spectre Wrote:  Yes, the distant starlight problem has been a concern for Creationists. Some summarize that God created light in transit. While I am sure God is capable of doing this, there would be no way to confirm if he did or not, as The Bible doesn't really explain how he did it, except there was light when he called for it.

I guess this is idea that I cannot swallow. The idea that to accept the Creation model, one has to accept the assumptions that cannot be proven one way or another (the light problem, perhaps the idea that fossils were placed by the devil to trick humans, etc.) I understand that all theories will most likely have to make assumptions, but those assumptions should be things that can be validated later. For example, Einstein's Theory of Relativity assumes that gravity was capable of bending light. This wasn't proven until later on during an eclipse.

From a scientific perspective, this is where the Creation model (for me) falls into the realm of failed theories.
It really depends on your world view. But I too, would rather provide a more sciencey explanation for the distant starlight problem. Though the idea of eternity does work in a spiritual sense, not everyone is the type of person that would accept that. That is one of the reasons why I am going into physics and astronomy. I want to try to take on this problem myself.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

http://www.answersforhope.org
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02-05-2011, 07:19 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2011 07:25 PM by Glaucus.)
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
But shouldn't scientific knowledge be separated from someone's "world view," in the sense that no matter what you believe, the laws of physics still apply to you?

Another common argument against creationism that I've heard (and used) is which creation should be accepted? The Genesis account goes against the Hopi creation story, which goes against the Greek, which goes against the Australian Aborigine, etc. I find it difficult to grasp how one can say that their creation model, while using very similar arguments to anyone else would claim that theirs was also true. If the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang are found to be wrong, that doesn't make the Judeo-Christian creation model anymore correct than any other religion's creation model. Though, it is something that should be considered when promoting one creation model over another.

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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02-05-2011, 07:48 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 07:19 PM)Glaucus Wrote:  But shouldn't scientific knowledge be separated from someone's "world view," in the sense that no matter what you believe, the laws of physics still apply to you?
This is why I said your world view comes into play. Someone who has a belief in the supernatural wouldn't have much trouble believing that Creation was a super natural event. It is possible for God to manipulate the speed of light, but to prove such a notion is outside of the realm of Science.

I don't want to bring the discussion into The Big Bang model, but you do realize that inflation has objects moving faster than the speed of light in a young universe. Another possibility is that we may not fully understand light in space yet.

(02-05-2011 07:19 PM)Glaucus Wrote:  Another common argument against creationism that I've heard (and used) is which creation should be accepted? The Genesis account goes against the Hopi creation story, which goes against the Greek, which goes against the Australian Aborigine, etc. I find it difficult to grasp how one can say that their creation model, while using very similar arguments to anyone else would claim that theirs was also true.
The Bible's accuracy is more easily verifiable than other books, if you look into Bible archeology. The creation account of The Bible is also a unique account, I don't know of any religion that has a god outside of time, space, and matter. The Biblical account just seems to be more plausible.


(02-05-2011 07:19 PM)Glaucus Wrote:  If the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang are found to be wrong, that doesn't make the Judeo-Christian creation model anymore correct than any other religion's creation model. Though, it is something that should be considered when promoting one creation model over another.
You are right, but just because you come up with a theory for the "first cause" of the universe doesn't make any religious creation account wrong either. If you want to keep consistency in logic.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

http://www.answersforhope.org
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02-05-2011, 07:59 PM
 
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
Just one issue I wanted to ask about with your last post, Spectre. Does Genesis say that God is outside of time and space? I know that's how most people think of God if they believe in him, but I don't recall the Bible saying anything to that effect in its account of creation.

Also, just wanted to say that I saw your intro post and obviously this topic, and I admire your eagerness to have an open and respectful debate in a place where you hold a very unpopular view, especially when people on opposite sides of this debate tend to have such unpleasant stereotypes of each other. We may disagree, but you certainly have my respect Smile
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02-05-2011, 08:13 PM
 
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
Starlight problem has to do with the difference in the laws Of physics I talked about in my other post in this thread. Time without sin is eternal so therefore eternal laws apply during creation.

How does one create in a dimension where time passes but age does not increase?

You create with age already attached as part of the creation of both dead and live matter. And because in eternity there is really no beginning, there is not problem with all things aging differently. Some even by how the laws of physics would work. Basically for this to make any sense, there are just 2 things to remember.

1) In our time-line, age and time run parallel.
2) In eternal time, age and time are "2 separate processes". In other words, time passes but age does stays the same always. This is why all things created during creation had age already added to them. Why? Like I said before, eternity has no beginning. So how would you gauge a beginning where it cannot exist, understand?

So how would the light problem work out and be solved which such difference?

Genesis 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Why create light (stars) then say: to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

If you think about it, what was being acknowledge here is the the light produced by the star was not yet shining upon the earth, or it would not have had to be so already. So creating the light, then saying it was created to give light upon the earth, and then it did. Means there was an action taken place that made it so.

So as the light travels across space to shine upon the earth. The laws of physics that require the star to be older for it's light can shine upon the earth, actually age the star. So if the star is 4 billion light years away, and it's light was stretched during creation to shine upon the earth. Then it would age according to how far it's light had to travel.

All of this is because time and age are separate process, and not parallel like what we see now. So when we try to explain creation under our current laws, it makes no sense.

1) So for most creationists who have not figured this out say: God did it because he can do anything.
2) And for most atheist-evolutionists who look more towards what they can see, think we are using cop out answers when actually most don't even understand the complexity of how creation was done.
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02-05-2011, 08:14 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 07:59 PM)Zach Wrote:  Just one issue I wanted to ask about with your last post, Spectre. Does Genesis say that God is outside of time and space? I know that's how most people think of God if they believe in him, but I don't recall the Bible saying anything to that effect in its account of creation.

That was my thought too. I've read the Creation story, and it seems a lot like any other creation story I've read. Particularly when God is walking through the Garden of Eden, or having extended conversations with Cain. I've always found it interesting how God is so much closer to us in the beginning than in the end of Bible.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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