Ask a Young Earth Creationist
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02-05-2011, 10:02 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2011 10:07 PM by Spectre.)
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 09:44 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  Spectre, it really is hilarious to see you actually think creation scientists aren't doing and publishing research because of funding issues.
Doing research is actually very expensive.


(02-05-2011 09:44 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  In america, the nih funding is incredibly strict, they are having loads of problems with their funding whilst the religious organisations - the templeton foundation, the creation research institute, etc - are reeling in the cash.
I'm not so sure of that, the RATE Committee's research cost in the ballpark of one million dollars and they were afraid that they wouldn't have the funding to finish it.

(02-05-2011 09:44 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  It seems to me that some of the reasons why they aren't doing research are that it is hard to do research on untestable claims, and many religious poeple and organisations in general detest science, and consider it a conspiracy.
Yes, some claims are untestable. I think I indicated this several times throughout the thread.

(02-05-2011 09:44 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  "....One was an atheist, strangely enough, I got the best description from my friend who was an atheist at the time of her experience. She was in a white tunnel, and saw little lights traveling past her. She knew that they were people. She said that she could think like thousands of times faster, and she could think clearly. She said that she was dead for 30 seconds but it was the most blissful 30 seconds in her life...."
So heaven is oxygen deprivation? This is precisely what happens when your brain is starved of oxygen. It doesn't work quite right.
I want to know how she knew those lights were people. With less brain activity, its not surprising that she was a whole lot calmer, or that she was blissful throughout that time - that's why people apply that in bedroom activities.
In fairness, what exactly happens when we die is still a mystery.


Oh, I'm also not saying that Creationists don't do research due to funding, but funding does affect how much research they do. The NIH funds about 6,000 scientists with 10% of the money it gives out in research, we don't have this many scientists in the Creation organizations, so of course there is more research going on in the secular world funding issues or not. o_O


I misread the site I was using. It invests in more than 6000 scientists, it is just that 10% of the money goes to 6000 scientists in their own labs. You can see for yourself.

http://www.nih.gov/about/budget.htm

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

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02-05-2011, 10:21 PM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 09:16 PM)ikester7579 Wrote:  I love threats. How about a life-form that can change it's environment to suit it's needs instead of it adapting to it surroundings? Would you not say that would defy evolution? And how would such an ability evolve?

The ability to change your environment rather than adapt to it is not as uncommon of a trait as we may have once thought. Look at us, we've managed to engineer our own lives so that we aren't reliant on nature as much. To some people, the only nature they get is from visiting a national park. The thing is, scientists are debating about whether or not it has caused us to stop evolving.

As for how does an ability evolve? Well, if the findings are true, it clearly isn't simply a matter of higher intelligence, but it does rely on a collective of the species.

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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03-05-2011, 12:05 AM
 
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 09:29 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 09:01 PM)ikester7579 Wrote:  Anyway, I'm being ignored because they cannot address my posts. That's okay, most atheist can't do it at the forum I help run either.

I stopped reading when I hit "Time without sin is eternal..." and you went off on your own little tangent where you were proving a timeless eternity within the context of your own little world where anything was possible. And of course you were doing it in the tone of certainty that only theists can possess since they can "know" everything, being a scenario of unfalsifiable hypotheses and intangible metaphysics and all.

And you realize that the word "sin" to a forum of atheists is meaningless right? It's a list of random actions deemed wrong in the fairy tale of religion.

It just like being in the world of atheist evolution conformism. Where everyone must think like you or be a moron. No real reason to think that way, neither is it free thinking or reason. Conformism is not science.

Also, I like it when you guys present your ideas as if evolution fairies with blueprints to complex designs did it. So we can throw insults or we can get down to business. But be honest, the reason you can only use insults is because that is all you have. If you have more to say to prove evolution as a true proven fact with mountains of empirical evidence, then do so. If you don't it just proves what I have been saying. So what's it going to be, more of the same dull one up game? Or are you going to put your money where your mouth is and show us all some real science? Or maybe you don;t have any, or are to afraid to debate on any level of science.

in fact I bet you cannot debate without some type of insult. I bet you argument is so weak that is the only way you can look like you are keeping up. Well?

Quote:I can't. And since there is zero evidence of these alternate dimensions, there is no reason to assume their existence. But I know this argument is lost on theists who believe the burden of proof lies with the non-believer.

Same go for all the missing links that don't exist.

Quote:And to Spectre:

"Have you ever studied quantum physics?"

-Quantum physicists don't even understand quantum physics, so please, get that physics major... spend 30 more years studying it, then get back to me.

Ben Stein has more degrees than you could ever dream of. Yet the education did him no good because he disagreed with evolution. Which proves education does not mean a thing unless you believe in evolution. So why should we get it when all you will do is treat us bad still?

Basically all you can do s insult. It's easy to beat insults when I can show them as for what they are and why you use them. Make us laugh some more. I think it's funny.


Quote:-I'm going to bed now because I have to be at work in 7 hours. I'll be back on tomorrow afternoon for more headaches and facepalms. Cheers.

You make my job to easy.

Spectre, how much science has this guy actually posted? I don;t remember reading any, so must be zero. He'll have to go and copy and past some material just so he can look smart. Or ask his buds to help him out.
(02-05-2011 10:21 PM)Glaucus Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 09:16 PM)ikester7579 Wrote:  I love threats. How about a life-form that can change it's environment to suit it's needs instead of it adapting to it surroundings? Would you not say that would defy evolution? And how would such an ability evolve?

The ability to change your environment rather than adapt to it is not as uncommon of a trait as we may have once thought. Look at us, we've managed to engineer our own lives so that we aren't reliant on nature as much. To some people, the only nature they get is from visiting a national park. The thing is, scientists are debating about whether or not it has caused us to stop evolving.

As for how does an ability evolve? Well, if the findings are true, it clearly isn't simply a matter of higher intelligence, but it does rely on a collective of the species.

That was lame, nice try though.
I see edit option has been totally turned off. I guess that must be the message to leave.
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03-05-2011, 12:22 AM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
His first post had the most to do with science, but he didn't go into detail, the rest has been mostly philosophy and opinions and possibly some mocking. That's why I didn't reply to his last post as I felt that it could become a flame fest rather than intelligent dialogue and productive conversation. If he wants to try to grill me though by presenting his evidence, I'll happily talk to him about it. I was purposely trying to stay on the defensive but if he wants an all out debate about his view then I'll have to switch gears.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

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03-05-2011, 12:40 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2011 01:06 AM by Glaucus.)
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(03-05-2011 12:05 AM)ikester7579 Wrote:  That was lame, nice try though.

Care to be more specific?

You seem to complain a lot about people mocking you, or not listening to you. Did you ever consider that is might be due to, as Spectre put it regarding Buddy Christ, "mostly philosophy and opinions and possibly some mocking."

I admire Spectre for coming here and having a civilized discussion with an army of heathens bearing down upon him. You, on the other hand, fill your posts with assertions, mockery, and arrogance, only to complain when those things are used against you.

(Regarding the EDIT feature: under the Suggestions section, there is a topic regarding some policy changes due to your attempts to make yourself seem like a victim of censorship.)
(02-05-2011 07:48 PM)Spectre Wrote:  The Bible's accuracy is more easily verifiable than other books, if you look into Bible archeology. The creation account of The Bible is also a unique account, I don't know of any religion that has a god outside of time, space, and matter. The Biblical account just seems to be more plausible.

If you don't mind, I'd like to follow this line of thinking in another topic (so as to not get this science discussion muddled up with a religious discussion.) Are you ok with this? If so, I'll create a topic tomorrow after my classes in the Atheist/Theist section (or feel free to start it).

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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03-05-2011, 01:07 AM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(02-05-2011 03:51 PM)Spectre Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 02:58 PM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  But what i meant with almighty is: capable of doing "anything". Like the many miracles that have occurred according to (literal interpretation of) the bible. For example if He can move aside the water so that Moses can cross the sea, then he should also be able to keep a Tsunami from getting to Japan if you know what i mean.

Also with "your" God i merely meant the God you believe in.
Sure he could prevent the tsunami from hitting Japan. Yes, I believe he is capable of all miracles as described in The Bible. I figured your question was going in that direction. Wink

Okay, if He's capable of doing this scale of miracles, he should also be able to alter a person's brain, and therefor ridding him of any evil thoughts, correct?

There are quite a number of diseases that change a person's personality dues to the damage caused to the brain. Personality change is logically connected to a different way of thinking (because altering that what makes you think, would make you think differently), a new way of thinking causes a new way of action (the differences can be huge). So if God bases his judgments based on your actions and thoughts, wouldn't that indirectly mean he's judging you based on your brain?

Also, as much as I know from creationists, animals that are not human are said that they have no soul if i'm not mistaking?
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03-05-2011, 01:36 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2011 01:57 AM by Spectre.)
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(03-05-2011 01:07 AM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  Okay, if He's capable of doing this scale of miracles, he should also be able to alter a person's brain, and therefor ridding him of any evil thoughts, correct?
God is capable of hardening and softening hearts. He could of not put the tree of good and evil in the garden of eden in the first place. In other words, he could of prevented this whole fiasco from happening, if he wished it.

(03-05-2011 01:07 AM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  There are quite a number of diseases that change a person's personality dues to the damage caused to the brain. Personality change is logically connected to a different way of thinking (because altering that what makes you think, would make you think differently), a new way of thinking causes a new way of action (the differences can be huge). So if God bases his judgments based on your actions and thoughts, wouldn't that indirectly mean he's judging you based on your brain?
That's deep eh? Salvation can not happen without an ability to understand it. Those who have mental issues that block the ability to understand salvation will not go to hell. I'll show you a part of The Bible that assists in affirming this.

After Nehemiah and the Jews had rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem they gathered together in worship to hear Ezra the Scribe read the Torah: "And the people gathered as one man, . . .and they asked Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses which the Lord had given to Israel. Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women, and all who could listen with understanding. And he read from it before the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the book of the law. . .And they read from the book, from the law of God, translating to give the sense so that they understood the reading. Nehemiah 8:1-3.

Only those who could understand it were there for the message. What is the implication? If you are unable to understand salvation for any reason, you will not be judged. There are multiple instances in The Bible, such as when Israel had to go to war and only adults 20 or older would be in their army, that shows that God does not judge those who are unable to understand salvation due to mental problems or age.



(03-05-2011 01:07 AM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  as much as I know from creationists, animals that are not human are said that they have no soul if i'm not mistaking?
If I didn't have a hebrew lexicon, I would have said no. But one day I did ponder this and I looked at the Genesis account. The same Hebrew word "nefesh" is used for both man and animal. It is the hebrew word for soul. However, other theologians say that other verses in The Bible, such as the verse that says that men will rule over the animals shows that they don't have souls. Really, it is a matter of interpretation, but based on what I read, they do indeed have souls according to the way the creation account is described in Hebrew. I wouldn't venture to say though that my answer is concrete though and i do realize that it is at odds with the majority of Christians who believe that animals do not have souls.


(03-05-2011 12:40 AM)Glaucus Wrote:  
(03-05-2011 12:05 AM)ikester7579 Wrote:  That was lame, nice try though.

Care to be more specific?

You seem to complain a lot about people mocking you, or not listening to you. Did you ever consider that is might be due to, as Spectre put it regarding Buddy Christ, "mostly philosophy and opinions and possibly some mocking."

I admire Spectre for coming here and having a civilized discussion with an army of heathens bearing down upon him. You, on the other hand, fill your posts with assertions, mockery, and arrogance, only to complain when those things are used against you.

(Regarding the EDIT feature: under the Suggestions section, there is a topic regarding some policy changes due to your attempts to make yourself seem like a victim of censorship.)
(02-05-2011 07:48 PM)Spectre Wrote:  The Bible's accuracy is more easily verifiable than other books, if you look into Bible archeology. The creation account of The Bible is also a unique account, I don't know of any religion that has a god outside of time, space, and matter. The Biblical account just seems to be more plausible.

If you don't mind, I'd like to follow this line of thinking in another topic (so as to not get this science discussion muddled up with a religious discussion.) Are you ok with this? If so, I'll create a topic tomorrow after my classes in the Atheist/Theist section (or feel free to start it).
Sorry didn't see you asking me a question. I don't normally go back and forth over things such as that, the reason being is that it normally results in an argument over interpretation and sometimes semantics, which undermines the discussion in the first place. I will likely at least comment in the thread though.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

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03-05-2011, 02:24 AM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
@spectre
1.Do you believe the Bible word for word ? If so , why ?
2.Would you force your beliefs on others ?
3.Which denomination of Christianity is true ?
4.Do you respect Occam's Razor ?

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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03-05-2011, 03:28 AM
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
OK, so I started reading this thread but I just couldn't. Sorry, too many unlogical things... First I was surprised when I saw a YEC coming here to talk. The thing that I can not understand is how and why do you constantly have to mix science with religion and you beliefs. The concept you Creationists don't understand is that your beliefs are just that BELIEFS. You BELIEVE in God and in Bible, you don't NEED evidence for your beliefs, you do not need science to prove you that you are correct. Religion and science are not to be mixed, one is based on pure evidence and research, other is based on human beliefs in supernatural (God for you). So my question would be why? Why do you constantly push your "science" in front of everything else? Is it because you lack true belief in the Word of God, or you just lack the belief in Creationist Word of God? Because, if you were "true believer", you would not need any evidence, nor would you ever argue with anyone about the facts and proofs for your Bible theories...

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03-05-2011, 03:30 AM
 
RE: Ask a Young Earth Creationist
(03-05-2011 12:40 AM)Glaucus Wrote:  
(03-05-2011 12:05 AM)ikester7579 Wrote:  That was lame, nice try though.

Care to be more specific?

You seem to complain a lot about people mocking you, or not listening to you. Did you ever consider that is might be due to, as Spectre put it regarding Buddy Christ, "mostly philosophy and opinions and possibly some mocking."

I admire Spectre for coming here and having a civilized discussion with an army of heathens bearing down upon him. You, on the other hand, fill your posts with assertions, mockery, and arrogance, only to complain when those things are used against you.

(Regarding the EDIT feature: under the Suggestions section, there is a topic regarding some policy changes due to your attempts to make yourself seem like a victim of censorship.)
(02-05-2011 07:48 PM)Spectre Wrote:  The Bible's accuracy is more easily verifiable than other books, if you look into Bible archeology. The creation account of The Bible is also a unique account, I don't know of any religion that has a god outside of time, space, and matter. The Biblical account just seems to be more plausible.

If you don't mind, I'd like to follow this line of thinking in another topic (so as to not get this science discussion muddled up with a religious discussion.) Are you ok with this? If so, I'll create a topic tomorrow after my classes in the Atheist/Theist section (or feel free to start it).

I dish what is dished to me, if you guys cannot take it don't dish it.
(03-05-2011 01:07 AM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 03:51 PM)Spectre Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 02:58 PM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  But what i meant with almighty is: capable of doing "anything". Like the many miracles that have occurred according to (literal interpretation of) the bible. For example if He can move aside the water so that Moses can cross the sea, then he should also be able to keep a Tsunami from getting to Japan if you know what i mean.

Also with "your" God i merely meant the God you believe in.
Sure he could prevent the tsunami from hitting Japan. Yes, I believe he is capable of all miracles as described in The Bible. I figured your question was going in that direction. Wink

Okay, if He's capable of doing this scale of miracles, he should also be able to alter a person's brain, and therefor ridding him of any evil thoughts, correct?

There are quite a number of diseases that change a person's personality dues to the damage caused to the brain. Personality change is logically connected to a different way of thinking (because altering that what makes you think, would make you think differently), a new way of thinking causes a new way of action (the differences can be huge). So if God bases his judgments based on your actions and thoughts, wouldn't that indirectly mean he's judging you based on your brain?

There is the matter of freewill. A person cannot be responsible for actions he had a no freewill choice in. If the person is mentally ill, has a chemical imbalance in the brain, then they would be considered innocent and here's why:

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

If good cannot be comprehended because of a mental condition, then evil cannot be defined either. So the person does not knoweth to do good, so it's not a sin. The only choices a person can be judge on are freewill choices. Because freewill choices only point to the person who made them. They cannot be blamed on a condition, or another person.

Quote:Also, as much as I know from creationists, animals that are not human are said that they have no soul if i'm not mistaking?

If an animal had a soul, how would a person present salvation to it?
(03-05-2011 03:28 AM)Filox Wrote:  OK, so I started reading this thread but I just couldn't. Sorry, too many unlogical things... First I was surprised when I saw a YEC coming here to talk. The thing that I can not understand is how and why do you constantly have to mix science with religion and you beliefs. The concept you Creationists don't understand is that your beliefs are just that BELIEFS. You BELIEVE in God and in Bible, you don't NEED evidence for your beliefs, you do not need science to prove you that you are correct. Religion and science are not to be mixed, one is based on pure evidence and research, other is based on human beliefs in supernatural (God for you). So my question would be why? Why do you constantly push your "science" in front of everything else? Is it because you lack true belief in the Word of God, or you just lack the belief in Creationist Word of God? Because, if you were "true believer", you would not need any evidence, nor would you ever argue with anyone about the facts and proofs for your Bible theories...

1) It was not us who came here looking for debate, it was members from here who came to troll our forum.

2) No body owns science, and no body owns the evidence. So either side can use it. And if you want it all to yourself, then pass a law that says Christians can opt out in paying their taxes towards anything scientific. That will cut your funding by about 50% or more. So I know you are not going to go that far. Which means we have as much right to all of it as you do.

Just so you know, none of us would be here of members from this forum would not have trolled our forum. So if you need someone to be mad at, be mad at them. if you need their names I can list them.
I thought these questions were interesting as most is a one sided view.

(03-05-2011 02:24 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  @spectre
1.Do you believe the Bible word for word ? If so , why ?

Yes, Because I choose to.

Quote:2.Would you force your beliefs on others ?

Define force. I will give the opportunity, but it's up to them to make the choice.

Quote:3.Which denomination of Christianity is true ?

None of them. Absolute truth cannot be obtained in the sense that mere man could obtain it. So I choose to be non-denominational, and choose to believe the Bible only.

Quote:4.Do you respect Occam's Razor ?

That must be the new 6 blade razor, right? Tongue
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