Assumptions about a creator
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09-03-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
I like the idea of having a DNA simulator on a computer from which you could alter various attributes and then nano print the DNA to grow your simulation into the real world.

Also, why not believe that a god came along and simply created life on this planet, instead of this being creating the entire universe ?

I could understand an alien UFO creator guy who isn't all powerful or all that knowledgeable. He's just a FedEx alien who dropped off some seeds.

To me that's a much better fictional story.

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09-03-2017, 10:38 PM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
Look at nature nothing in this world was created by nothing. Oh and chemistry says the macro acts like the micro so multiple dementions more than our reality. And the bible tells you how god is. The bible tells you how nature works.
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09-03-2017, 10:39 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2017 10:43 PM by Alla.)
RE: Assumptions about a creator
Robvalue Wrote:There is no scientific evidence that this is the case
I agree.
Robvalue Wrote:What else do we know about this creator? Nothing
If this creator doesn't reveal anything about himself/herself there is no way for us to know anything.
Robvalue Wrote:Why would you think that?"
1) The creator is still alive, cannot die and/or has existed forever
I don't think, I was convinced.
Robvalue Wrote:2) The creator knew how things were going to pan out.
I assume this because I was convinced that creator has experience in creating realities like ours. Our reality is not his/her first creation. It is very easy to predict very accurately many things.
Robvalue Wrote:3) The power the creator has over our reality translates to outside of our reality also.
I assume that his/her power does not translate outside the worlds he/she creates. Why do I assume this? Because I was convinced that there are creators many who create their own worlds.
Robvalue Wrote:4) The creator has some interest in humans
I don't assume this I was convinced. I am convinced that He and She love me. I feel their love.
Robvalue Wrote:5) The creator knows we are self aware.
Again, I was convinced.
Robvalue Wrote:6) The creator intends to remove us from this reality and place us in others, possibly his, when we die.
I am convinced it is true.
Robvalue Wrote:7) The creator has set ideas about how it wants us to act, and has tried to communicate them with us. Even if we assume it knows about us, why would it care how we act? If it was important to the purpose of reality, we would have just been programmed to act the way it wanted.
I don't assume, I am convinced that creator created us the way that we can figure out how to act. We can figure out what choices make us and others happy. Of course, we don't know everything and we make mistakes, and we have right or wrong ideas, but that is ok.
I am convinced that creator is very, very happy that Rob is asking all these questions.
I am convinced that creator also sends messengers. They reveal knowledge from creator. But not all people have an opportunity to know this and it is ok. Rob still can grow and learn and make good choices. Rob still can find joy.
Robvalue Wrote:8) The creator made this for us. The vast nature of reality is ample evidence against this. So is the fact that almost all of it is toxic to us. So is the way the laws of physics restrain us from exploring anything further than a tiny fraction away from ourselves. If there is any point at all to this, its suitability for us is way down on the list of sensible agendas. The fact that it's so easy to imagine incredibly better environments for us (pretty cruel really) also works against this.
I don't assume, I am convinced that creator created THIS EARTH for us.
Robvalue Wrote:9) There are just 2 or 3 realities.
I don't assume this because I am convinced that the number of realities is unknown to us.

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09-03-2017, 10:44 PM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
It says it makes god happy to hide the secrets and man to find out.
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10-03-2017, 02:28 AM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
Thanks for the very interesting replies!

Yes, the creator not lying to us is a huge one I forgot. It's one of the reasons I would never join a religion, even if my goal was to avoid the "bad afterlife".

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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10-03-2017, 03:38 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2017 09:34 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Assumptions about a creator
Yeah, I'm going to edit the shit out of this for readability. Someone has to... Dodgy

(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:There is no scientific evidence that this is the case
I agree.

Okay. I agree as well. Let's see if the complete lack of evidence at all stops you from making unfounded assumptions. I'm going to guess it doesn't, but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:What else do we know about this creator? Nothing
If this creator doesn't reveal anything about himself/herself there is no way for us to know anything.

Indeed. There is no known way to verify information of supposedly supernatural origin. But we have every reasons to doubt hearsay, and that if such a being did exist and wanted to communicate, it could certainly do better than anything traditionally ascribed to it.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:Why would you think that?"
1) The creator is still alive, cannot die and/or has existed forever
I don't think, I was convinced.

Convinced with what? You admitted at the top that there was no evidence. Thinking it is true might make you feel better, but that's a piss poor methodology that nobody should take seriously and that everyone should rightfully ridicule you for.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:2) The creator knew how things were going to pan out.
I assume this because I was convinced that creator has experience in creating realities like ours. Our reality is not his/her first creation. It is very easy to predict very accurately many things.

Once again, see above. You admittedly lack any evidence to support those assertions, and things are not true because they make you feel better. Your reasoning is on par with that of a sad child.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:3) The power the creator has over our reality translates to outside of our reality also.
I assume that his/her power does not translate outside the worlds he/she creates. Why do I assume this? Because I was convinced that there are creators many who create their own worlds.

Again, convinced without evidence. One wonders how you keep all the shit in your day to day straight, as reality seems to matter so little to you.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:4) The creator has some interest in humans
I don't assume this I was convinced. I am convinced that He and She love me. I feel their love.

So? I can feel Darth Vader's wrath whenever I watch Star Wars, that doesn't make him real. Emotions do not dictate reality.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:5) The creator knows we are self aware.
Again, I was convinced.

Again, without evidence. Go stand in the corner with the dunce cap on until you learn what you are doing wrong.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:6) The creator intends to remove us from this reality and place us in others, possibly his, when we die.
I am convinced it is true.

Without evidence. Great for the credulous, not so much for anyone who actually give a shit about being factually accurate.

If it were true, factually accurate, and demonstrable with evidence, you wouldn't need to be convinced. Scientists would be writing papers about it and developing tests and theories around it, people would be winning Nobel Prizes and being hailed as pioneers in their fields, and Mormonism would spread like wildfire amongst the intelligentsia.

Instead we see the exact opposite, with the best and brightest that humanity has to offer, those with the best understanding of what reality is and how it works, being proportionally the most irreligious people on the planet. That aught to tell you something. Whatever it is that convinces you, fails to convince people far more intelligent and learned than you will ever be; and for good reason.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:7) The creator has set ideas about how it wants us to act, and has tried to communicate them with us. Even if we assume it knows about us, why would it care how we act? If it was important to the purpose of reality, we would have just been programmed to act the way it wanted.
I don't assume, I am convinced that creator created us the way that we can figure out how to act. We can figure out what choices make us and others happy. Of course, we don't know everything and we make mistakes, and we have right or wrong ideas, but that is ok.

Wrong. Being convinced without evidence is identical to making an assumption. You are just picking your preferred conclusion, evidence be damned. That is the very essence of making an assumption. Facepalm


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I am convinced that creator is very, very happy that Rob is asking all these questions.

So? I am convinced that Darth Vader could force choke the shit out of you. Why should you or anyone else care?


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I am convinced that creator also sends messengers. They reveal knowledge from creator. But not all people have an opportunity to know this and it is ok. Rob still can grow and learn and make good choices. Rob still can find joy.

I'm sure Rob is overjoyed that your imaginary friend is such a condescending prick as to hide himself from those most critical. Only giving out communications and special hidden knowledge to that that already believe? Why, that doesn't sound like confirmation bias at all! (Can you tell I'm being sarcastic?) Dodgy


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:8) The creator made this for us. The vast nature of reality is ample evidence against this. So is the fact that almost all of it is toxic to us. So is the way the laws of physics restrain us from exploring anything further than a tiny fraction away from ourselves. If there is any point at all to this, its suitability for us is way down on the list of sensible agendas. The fact that it's so easy to imagine incredibly better environments for us (pretty cruel really) also works against this.
I don't assume, I am convinced that creator created THIS EARTH for us.

Yes, you do assume. To have a conclusion that ignores or is oblivious to the evidence, and will never change because of it, is an assumption. Try to English better?

Plus, how was this world made for us? We inhabit a fraction of the surface crust, itself but a fraction of the entire surface (most of it covered in water, making it inhabitable). itself but a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a solar system in a nearly unimaginably vast galaxy within a nearly incalculable universe. But no, this was all made for us, that that Jesus could tells us not to masturbate. Sure it was.

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The universe, if we were to judge a system's motivation by what it allows and facilitates in the creation of, was made for stars and black holes. There are far more of them than us by order of magnitude, and the universe has no problem creating them constantly or allowing them to continue to exist within it's entire expanse.

Human population on Earth ~ 7,489,750,000 (just shy of 7.5 billion)

Stars in the observable universe ~ 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (70 billion trillion)

There are more stars by orders of magnitude than humans that have or will ever exist. Does that now help put it into perspective for you?


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:9) There are just 2 or 3 realities.
I don't assume this because I am convinced that the number of realities is unknown to us.

Not entirely. We know that at the very least this one exists. Other may or may not, but to say the number is entirely unknown is not accurate as we know of at least one. Granted, you're not very in touch with it, so perhaps that's why you forgot.



TL;DR Who needs evidence when you have feels? People who care about what is factually accurate, that's who.

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10-03-2017, 06:17 AM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
(09-03-2017 10:38 PM)socialistview Wrote:  Look at nature nothing in this world was created by nothing.

Please provide an example of something being created and not just being formed by re-arranging other stuff that already exists.

Quote: Oh and chemistry says the macro acts like the micro

Citation required

Quote:so multiple dementions more than our reality.

Assuming you mean dimensions and aren't noting the multiple dementias that you appear to suffer from... you have not demonstrated anything that implies multiple dimensions.

Quote: And the bible tells you how god is.

The bible tells you what a bunch of bronze and iron age tribal societies thought about the god they imagined.

Quote:The bible tells you how nature works.

No, it really doesn't except perhaps in a few utterly trivial references that we'd expect from the people that wrote it.

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10-03-2017, 06:21 AM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
Believing something a book says, just because a book says it, is just as much of an assumption. You're assuming the book is automatically true. That's a dangerous assumption to make about any book, even one you know is written by an author you really trust. Think for yourself!

I wasn't even talking about any particular religion, so I don't know how randomly picking up one religious book is supposed to support these assumptions. Even if all the religions could agree on one point, it's still an assumption, unless there's actually any evidence to support it.

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10-03-2017, 06:33 AM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
(09-03-2017 10:38 PM)socialistview Wrote:  Look at nature nothing in this world was created by nothing. Oh and chemistry says the macro acts like the micro so multiple dementions more than our reality. And the bible tells you how god is. The bible tells you how nature works.

The key word in that was "dementions".
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10-03-2017, 06:51 AM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
(09-03-2017 10:38 PM)socialistview Wrote:  The bible tells you how nature works.

Cool.

Go get some sticks, place them in front of some lambs, see if that gets you spotted offspring.

Dipshit. Drinking Beverage

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