Assumptions about a creator
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10-03-2017, 06:55 AM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
(10-03-2017 06:33 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  The key word is "dementia".

Fixed that for ya. Wink

No worries mate. Bob's your uncle.

In fact, Bob's around here somewhere.

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I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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10-03-2017, 10:39 AM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
Just wanted to contribute my own view based on a blending of my religious leanings and your programming scenario. I'm sure it has ample holes to poke through, but I enjoyed contemplating it never-the-less. Good topic. Smile

1. The creator is not physically affected by the world it creates.

2. The creator writes a code for the universe that calls upon well defined forces of nature that govern everything. All things and events in the universe are subject to the forces of nature.

3. The creator writes a “code of life” that is designed to advance itself.

4. The creator has many attributes such as emotions, wants and desires that inspire the creator to make a resource file which the code of life can call upon at will to create more advanced forms of life.

5. The creator's agenda in creating its universe is to derive pleasure, pain, joy and sadness from watching the life forms as they struggle and succeed or fail to bring themselves into higher and more organized states of existence.

6. The creator chooses to intervene only if the above goals are not being accomplished naturally.

7. The creator chooses to limit interventions to the least amount of action needed to bring the goals back on track to the minimal criteria of passing.

8. The environment in which the creator’s creations exist is the “live environment.” There is an additional “test environment” which projects the end result of the program based on the creator’s code. Prior to running the program on the live environment, the test environment reveals flaws which the creator can then insert “fixes” to counteract the adverse outcomes (those that do not meet the minimum criteria) of the code’s natural progression.

9. When the creator is satisfied with the predicted outcomes, the code is loaded into the live environment and allowed to run.
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10-03-2017, 10:52 AM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
(10-03-2017 03:38 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Yeah, I'm going to edit the shit out of this for readability. Someone has to... Dodgy

(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I agree.

Okay. I agree as well. Let's see if the complete lack of evidence at all stops you from making unfounded assumptions. I'm going to guess it doesn't, but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  If this creator doesn't reveal anything about himself/herself there is no way for us to know anything.

Indeed. There is no known way to verify information of supposedly supernatural origin. But we have every reasons to doubt hearsay, and that if such a being did exist and wanted to communicate, it could certainly do better than anything traditionally ascribed to it.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't think, I was convinced.

Convinced with what? You admitted at the top that there was no evidence. Thinking it is true might make you feel better, but that's a piss poor methodology that nobody should take seriously and that everyone should rightfully ridicule you for.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I assume this because I was convinced that creator has experience in creating realities like ours. Our reality is not his/her first creation. It is very easy to predict very accurately many things.

Once again, see above. You admittedly lack any evidence to support those assertions, and things are not true because they make you feel better. Your reasoning is on par with that of a sad child.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I assume that his/her power does not translate outside the worlds he/she creates. Why do I assume this? Because I was convinced that there are creators many who create their own worlds.

Again, convinced without evidence. One wonders how you keep all the shit in your day to day straight, as reality seems to matter so little to you.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't assume this I was convinced. I am convinced that He and She love me. I feel their love.

So? I can feel Darth Vader's wrath whenever I watch Star Wars, that doesn't make him real. Emotions do not dictate reality.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  Again, I was convinced.

Again, without evidence. Go stand in the corner with the dunce cap on until you learn what you are doing wrong.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I am convinced it is true.

Without evidence. Great for the credulous, not so much for anyone who actually give a shit about being factually accurate.

If it were true, factually accurate, and demonstrable with evidence, you wouldn't need to be convinced. Scientists would be writing papers about it and developing tests and theories around it, people would be winning Nobel Prizes and being hailed as pioneers in their fields, and Mormonism would spread like wildfire amongst the intelligentsia.

Instead we see the exact opposite, with the best and brightest that humanity has to offer, those with the best understanding of what reality is and how it works, being proportionally the most irreligious people on the planet. That aught to tell you something. Whatever it is that convinces you, fails to convince people far more intelligent and learned than you will ever be; and for good reason.


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't assume, I am convinced that creator created us the way that we can figure out how to act. We can figure out what choices make us and others happy. Of course, we don't know everything and we make mistakes, and we have right or wrong ideas, but that is ok.

Wrong. Being convinced without evidence is identical to making an assumption. You are just picking your preferred conclusion, evidence be damned. That is the very essence of making an assumption. Facepalm


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I am convinced that creator is very, very happy that Rob is asking all these questions.

So? I am convinced that Darth Vader could force choke the shit out of you. Why should you or anyone else care?


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I am convinced that creator also sends messengers. They reveal knowledge from creator. But not all people have an opportunity to know this and it is ok. Rob still can grow and learn and make good choices. Rob still can find joy.

I'm sure Rob is overjoyed that your imaginary friend is such a condescending prick as to hide himself from those most critical. Only giving out communications and special hidden knowledge to that that already believe? Why, that doesn't sound like confirmation bias at all! (Can you tell I'm being sarcastic?) Dodgy


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't assume, I am convinced that creator created THIS EARTH for us.

Yes, you do assume. To have a conclusion that ignores or is oblivious to the evidence, and will never change because of it, is an assumption. Try to English better?

Plus, how was this world made for us? We inhabit a fraction of the surface crust, itself but a fraction of the entire surface (most of it covered in water, making it inhabitable). itself but a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a solar system in a nearly unimaginably vast galaxy within a nearly incalculable universe. But no, this was all made for us, that that Jesus could tells us not to masturbate. Sure it was.

[Image: QeiTidZ.jpg]

The universe, if we were to judge a system's motivation by what it allows and facilitates in the creation of, was made for stars and black holes. There are far more of them than us by order of magnitude, and the universe has no problem creating them constantly or allowing them to continue to exist within it's entire expanse.

Human population on Earth ~ 7,489,750,000 (just shy of 7.5 billion)

Stars in the observable universe ~ 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (70 billion trillion)

There are more stars by orders of magnitude than humans that have or will ever exist. Does that now help put it into perspective for you?


(09-03-2017 10:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't assume this because I am convinced that the number of realities is unknown to us.

Not entirely. We know that at the very least this one exists. Other may or may not, but to say the number is entirely unknown is not accurate as we know of at least one. Granted, you're not very in touch with it, so perhaps that's why you forgot.



TL;DR Who needs evidence when you have feels? People who care about what is factually accurate, that's who.

The pic of Jesus telling the universe to not masturbate. Laugh out loadLaugh out load

It just made me think of Jesus communicating this concept to multiple alien species in the universe.

Hey! Quit putting your flerbortz in the vadu!

Stop putting your vadu in cronstics!

You with the pupalisses! Stop bringing them near the osmotic spurdorphis!

Hey you six-tentacled thing! Only put your 3rd tentacle into the 2nd orifice to initiate asexually on the day after Sabbath!

Oh you dirty little fucks! I'm going to drown the whole universe!!!!!!

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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10-03-2017, 01:45 PM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2017 01:48 PM by Alla.)
RE: Assumptions about a creator
EvolutionKills Wrote:Indeed. There is no known way to verify information of supposedly supernatural origin. But we have every reasons to doubt hearsay,
I agree with you.
I also don't understand what "supernatural" means. Really, what is "supernatural?
EvolutionKills Wrote:and that if such a being did exist and wanted to communicate, it could certainly do better than anything traditionally ascribed to it.
May be it could, may be it is not necessary in order for you to be nice, kind, compassionate, forgiving and friendly even to horrible and stupid, and ignorant and naïve people like me.
EvolutionKills Wrote:Again, convinced without evidence. One wonders how you keep all the shit in your day to day straight, as reality seems to matter so little to you.
I accept reality every day of my life and my convictions are not an obstacle for accepting this reality. Very often my convictions are REAL help to me.
EvolutionKills Wrote:Convinced with what? You admitted at the top that there was no evidence. Thinking it is true might make you feel better, but that's a piss poor methodology that nobody should take seriously and that everyone should rightfully ridicule you for.
I can be convinced in something without having any evidence. For example, I am convinced that you are great person without any evidence.
EvolutionKills Wrote:So? I can feel Darth Vader's wrath whenever I watch Star Wars, that doesn't make him real. Emotions do not dictate reality.
I agree.
EvolutionKills Wrote:I'm sure Rob is overjoyed that your imaginary friend is such a condescending prick as to hide himself from those most critical. Only giving out communications and special hidden knowledge to that that already believe? Why, that doesn't sound like confirmation bias at all! (Can you tell I'm being sarcastic?) Dodgy
There is a reason why creator doesn't appear to every human. There is very, very good reason for that. Again, I don't assume this. I am just convinced that certain claims are revelations from the creator and that they are true.
EvolutionKills Wrote:So? I am convinced that Darth Vader could force choke the shit out of you. Why should you or anyone else care?
I don't know why. May be nobody should care. But I do not share my convictions because I want someone to care, I just reply to Rob's questions. If Rob didn't ask I wouldn't talk about my convictions.
EvolutionKills Wrote:Plus, how was this world made for us?
I said: "I am convinced that THIS EARTH was created for us". I didn't say anything about world. About water on Earth. I love fish and all kind of sea food. I can eat any kind of sea food.
I enjoy the beauty of the oceans and seas, and rivers and lakes.
EvolutionKills Wrote:. But no, this was all made for us, that that Jesus could tells us not to masturbate.
Unless Jesus told you PERSONALLY or unless at least you are convinced that Jesus is real and gave this kind of instruction you can masturbate as many times as you want without feeling any guilt.
EvolutionKills Wrote:Not entirely. We know that at the very least this one exists. Other may or may not, but to say the number is entirely unknown is not accurate as we know of at least one. Granted, you're not very in touch with it, so perhaps that's why you forgot.
If I said that I am convinced that the number of realities was 1 I wouldn't say that the number is unknown. But I am convinced that there are many realities like ours. The number was not revealed to us; not yet. But it was revealed that mortal men can not comprehend this number. Not yet.
EvolutionKills Wrote:Who needs evidence when you have feels?
I don't mind to have evidence of my convictions. I would love to have evidence of my convictions. But it is not my fault that something convinces me.
I was an atheist, but one day some kind of unknown something convinced me that Jesus Christ lives, that He is real, and He loves me and I loved Him too." That's it. Nobody can convince me that it is not true.
I DID NOT ASSUME all that. I was convinced. But I did assume right away: "If Christ is real then God is also real". But my assumption was based on my very, very strong conviction.

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10-03-2017, 01:50 PM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
Aliza Wrote:6. The creator chooses to intervene only if the above goals are not being accomplished naturally.
I agree with this because I am convinced it is true.

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10-03-2017, 03:08 PM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
I think we're getting astray from the original topic here.

The question isn't whether we believe these things about a creator, or why, or even whether a creator existed.

The question is, IF there was a creator, what could be known about that creator just from the fact that it was a creator, and what assumptions are frequently made about a creator that aren't really supported on those grounds alone?
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10-03-2017, 03:10 PM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
See we have to live by faith and god will show his power after. The jews still believe as god worked in their lives.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%204
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10-03-2017, 03:28 PM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
(10-03-2017 03:10 PM)socialistview Wrote:  See we have to live by faith and god will show his power after. The jews still believe as god worked in their lives.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%204

New Rule: Never let biblegateway.com --or any Christian organization-- tell you what Jews (or any other group of people) believe or believed in the past. If you want to know what a particular group of people believes, ask that group.
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10-03-2017, 03:33 PM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
(10-03-2017 03:08 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  I think we're getting astray from the original topic here.

The question isn't whether we believe these things about a creator, or why, or even whether a creator existed.

The question is, IF there was a creator, what could be known about that creator just from the fact that it was a creator, and what assumptions are frequently made about a creator that aren't really supported on those grounds alone?
if creator doesn't communicate in any way, nothing can be known about him/her/it.
It would also mean that it doesn't matter what we think about the creator.

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10-03-2017, 03:34 PM
RE: Assumptions about a creator
socialistview Wrote:See we have to live by faith
I wonder why? Do you have an answer?

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