Astronomy as a path to atheism
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28-01-2014, 04:19 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
Well it worked for me...

Its silent, dark and cold out there... We're like lone travelers at a campfire, in an infinite desert, looking into the flames we feel warmth and comfort, but looking around at the darkness brings a shiver. On the horizon we can see the glow of other fires, and we wonder if anyone else is out there feeling just as lonely and afraid.




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28-01-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
(28-01-2014 03:02 PM)Rouge Jew Wrote:  Sure. But lets hypothetically say there was a deity that created this universe. We still know how insignificantly small the Earth is in this ridiculously massive universe. Knowing that makes it very difficult to claim this deity's word is via the Bible, Torah, Koran, etc. How could this deity possibly care so much about the activities of one species on one tiny little speck of dust.
You pretty much just said, "Sure. But" and then proceeded to repeat your original argument.
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28-01-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
BTW, David pondered the same question. It obviously doesn't need to lead to loss of faith.

Psalm 8
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
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28-01-2014, 04:43 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
(28-01-2014 12:35 PM)Rouge Jew Wrote:  Thoughts on this?
Gawd really must have one hell of an amplifier to be able to hear the individual thoughts of each one of us on this insignificant speck. Yes

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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28-01-2014, 06:10 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
(28-01-2014 04:39 PM)alpha male Wrote:  BTW, David pondered the same question. It obviously doesn't need to lead to loss of faith.

Psalm 8
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

He also had absolutely no conception of the scale of the universe. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-01-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
(28-01-2014 04:39 PM)alpha male Wrote:  BTW, David pondered the same question. It obviously doesn't need to lead to loss of faith.

Psalm 8
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

You seem to forget, people of David's time believed in a solid firmament...

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28-01-2014, 07:32 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
With knowledge of astronomy, creation of stars, planetary accretion, and such, compared against the first chapter of Genesis, the discrepancies are bleeding obvious. It becomes immediately clear that the book is certainly not an accurate chronology written by a creator. If such a book can be debunked on page one, there's no reason to buy into the rest of it.

Once I was comfortable questioning what I "knew," logic and common sense led me down a short path to atheism.

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28-01-2014, 07:59 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
(28-01-2014 12:35 PM)Rouge Jew Wrote:  To conclude on my point: How can someone possible believe in any of our religious texts or gods, when realizing our planet is so incredibly microscopic in all of existence? And then to have the ignorance to think that IF there was a deity that created this ridiculously tremendous universe, how could that deity be so incredibly interested in such specific activities of just one species on one tiny blue piece of dust?

You would be surprised to see all the excuses people will make when they want to believe something.

If you ask them why the universe is so vast, they'll give you some variation of [mysterious ways].

If you ask them why we can see stars more than 6,000 light years out, they'll tell you that God created light 99.x% of the way from the start to earth so we can see it. Bonus points if they invoke changing speeds of light, cuz they totally do that.*

If you ask them why there are so many pieces of evidence of the universe being more than 6,000 years old, they'll either question how the scientists calibrate their dating techniques, dubiously point to discrepancies that have occurred in the past, or claim that radiometric decay rates change cuz they say so. Bonus points if they claim to know the amount that this decay changes, and that, if you add in their mystery factors, the decay rates point to a universe that is... just under 6,000 years old.*

Hell, I've seen people who say they don't believe in gravity. When I pressed deeper, it was because this is one of several things that invalidates geocentrism*. Yes, geocentrism, that cosmological world view that was debunked 500 years ago.


* I have met two individuals on a Christian forum who claim all of these things. They are extremely well read and extremely well versed in their YEC apologetics. I am impressed by the effort they have put into this. I'm deeply saddened by the exceptional waste of effort that they could have put into any number of other things. Hell, I would be happier if they had spent all that time masturbating; at least they wouldn't be attempting to dumb down anyone who happens across their posts. Fuck.
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28-01-2014, 09:07 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
(28-01-2014 04:39 PM)alpha male Wrote:  BTW, David pondered the same question. It obviously doesn't need to lead to loss of faith.

It does when Genesis says that days and nights could exist without the sun or that the sun and the moon and the stars were all created after the earth was formed. Incidentally, plants were also created before the sun came into being (a blow against the day-age hypothesis, I would think).

Or when Joshua commands the sun to stand still in Gibeon.

Or when Isaiah commands the shadow of the sundial to move back 10 degrees.

Or when darkness came over "all the land" when Christ was crucified.

Or when Mark talks about the sun being darkened, the moon not "giv(ing) it's light", the stars falling to the earth and the heavenly bodies being shaken.

Why, yes. Then it diminishes our faith in the validity of the scriptures to the vanishing point and leads to loss of faith.

Doc
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28-01-2014, 09:45 PM
RE: Astronomy as a path to atheism
(28-01-2014 12:35 PM)Rouge Jew Wrote:  I am not sure if this has been discussed (as I am a newbie here), but given that Astronomy fascination was my most significant route to free thought, I wonder that if could be or might have been the case for others.

Essentially, in studying astronomy, you may come to realize just how tremendous our universe is, let alone our own galaxy. We can't even explore the opposite ends of our own galaxy at 10 times the speed of light! Furthermore, realizing the enormity of our galaxy and universe will put into perspective just how small and insignificant our entire planet is (i.e. Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot). It has also been theorized as part of study, that there might be billions of Earth-like planets in just our own galaxy alone. I would not be able to comprehend how many might then be in the Universe.

To conclude on my point: How can someone possible believe in any of our religious texts or gods, when realizing our planet is so incredibly microscopic in all of existence? And then to have the ignorance to think that IF there was a deity that created this ridiculously tremendous universe, how could that deity be so incredibly interested in such specific activities of just one species on one tiny blue piece of dust?

Thoughts on this?

(various typos corrected)

One of my earliest memories is me looking up at the night sky from our front window and wondering what the stars actually were made of. Soon after, I heard from a nun in Catechism (in the days nuns actually came into the home) about some guy who supposedly walked on top of the water and I laughed and said, "No one can walk on water because they will fall in!"

I was 4 years old. The nun was not amused.

Astronomy has been with me all my life.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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