At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
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01-11-2013, 05:59 AM
Wink At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
Debate: Atheist vs Christian (Richard Dawkins vs Cardinal George Pell)

Bit of a tepid debate, but skip to 47min and try not to piss yourself.




Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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01-11-2013, 06:50 AM
RE: At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
But if you start at that point, you miss the bare-faced lie about Darwin.

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01-11-2013, 09:34 PM
RE: At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
Wow, I loved this, thanks for sharing! The tweets were CRACKING ME UP!! Laughat

I don't know what was funnier at minute 47, the weird blinking guy, or pell's statement.

What had me laughing the most was when Pell started talking about how unintelligent the Jews were at the time of Christ, and the host pointed out that his messiah was one of those unintelligent Jews!

The host was great, asked some really good questions that got Pell squirming.

Enjoyed a lot of Dawkins' answers.


(01-11-2013 06:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  But if you start at that point, you miss the bare-faced lie about Darwin.

Yeah, what was that? He seemed really confident, even gave a page number from his autobiography??
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01-11-2013, 10:50 PM
RE: At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
Fried or Barbecued?

Wonder what seasonings they used. Consider

Oh that's not what he meant, was it?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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02-11-2013, 12:20 AM
RE: At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
Hahahaha the audience is great... "OHHHH booo boo.... BOOO ohhhhh boo...." and he's just like uhhhhhh thank you.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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02-11-2013, 12:54 AM
RE: At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
Oh oh! And Richard Dawkins "why is that funny!?" Laughat
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02-11-2013, 01:39 AM
RE: At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
All I could think about was how much the guy in the middle, the commentator or whatever he's called, looks like Kevin Rudd (Aussie Prime Minister). It's so fucking uncanny how much he looks like him.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
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02-11-2013, 02:50 AM
RE: At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
(01-11-2013 09:34 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 06:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  But if you start at that point, you miss the bare-faced lie about Darwin.

Yeah, what was that? He seemed really confident, even gave a page number from his autobiography??

Pell was quote-mining.

The rest of the quote goes on to say... "but I think it's bullshit so I have to remain agnostic."

Or words to that effect.

Therefore Pell lied when he said that Darwin was a theist. Unless he meant 'was' in the context of 'was a theist' then later on 'was not'.

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02-11-2013, 03:01 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2013 03:57 AM by Chippy.)
RE: At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
(01-11-2013 06:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  But if you start at that point, you miss the bare-faced lie about Darwin.

(01-11-2013 09:34 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Yeah, what was that? He seemed really confident, even gave a page number from his autobiography??

He wasn't lying. This is a confused topic because Darwin published more than one autobiography and the early versions where he discussed religion were expurgated by his executors to avoid controversy.

I have this volume and it includes all of the autobiographies in their original (unexpurgated) form.

One of the autobiographies is entitled Recollections of the development of my mind and character and it has a chapter labelled From my return to England (Oct 2 1836) to my marriage (Jany 29th 1839) which has a subsection named Religious belief. It is only 7-pages long but therein he describes his progressive loss of belief in the truth of Christianity. From what he writes he is most definitely not a Christian. He leaves himself with just a God and he goes through a series of reasons why God has explanatory value and rejects each one in turn in except for one. He writes:

When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man; & I deserve to be called a Theist. This conclusion was strong in my mind about the time, as far as I can remember, when I wrote the Origin of Species; and it is since that time that it has very gradually with many fluctuations become weaker. But then arises the doubt can the mind of man, which has, as I fully believe, been developed from a mind as low as that possessed by the lowest animal, be trusted when it draws such grand conclusions? (p.396)

So he feels he needs God to explain the origin of it all and he expresses a weak commitment to theism. We would probably say he is deist. I take it that Pell was referring to that passage. So I suppose it is fair to say that Darwin was theist/deist when he wrote Origin. BUT, Darwin goes on to say

May not these be the result of that connection between cause & effect which strikes us as a necessary one, but probably depends merely on inherited experience? Nor must we overlook the probability of the constant inculcation of a belief in God on the minds of children producing so strong & perhaps an inherited effect on their brains, not as yet fully developed, that it would be as difficult for them to throw off their belief in God, as for a monkey to throw off its instinctive fear & hatred of a snake. I cannot pretend to throw the least light on such abstruse problems. The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; & I for one must be content to remain an Agnostic.

So yeah I suppose Pell wasn't lying but he was selectively quoting unless as you said he meant Darwin was a theist at some point in time.
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02-11-2013, 03:51 AM
RE: At 47min mark, you will spit beverage
(02-11-2013 01:39 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  All I could think about was how much the guy in the middle, the commentator or whatever he's called, looks like Kevin Rudd (Aussie Prime Minister). It's so fucking uncanny how much he looks like him.

Do you think?

[Image: tony-jones.jpg]

vs.

[Image: Rudd-Standard.jpg]

They look different to me. Rudd's face is rounder and their hair is very different.
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