At my job...
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06-12-2012, 02:44 PM
RE: At my job...
(06-12-2012 02:21 PM)sleepsoldier Wrote:  I just wonder if I should possibly just have my non-belief be known. Because it certainly seemed like he wanted to have a conversation today. I tread a very fine line all the time, but I wonder if I should just say I'm an atheist, but I'm not really that militant about it. Or if I should just let the customers and management say whatever they want and possibly start wondering why I never talk to them.
If they talk that much about religion you could take the oportunity to test the waters, try to take the conversation to make him talk about how his opinions are about his employees beliefs and if that sort of things could affect your job. But all in a hypothetical tone.

Maybe you could even say you think people shouldn't work together if they have different beliefs or something like that, if he agrees then you know to just keep it to yourself, if he disagrees then you know you can say what you believe (or don't believe).

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06-12-2012, 03:41 PM
RE: At my job...
(06-12-2012 02:27 PM)Denicio Wrote:  
(06-12-2012 02:05 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I don't think Hitchens ever went out of his way to try and insult anyone, people just take offense to his abrasive style and nature.
DING DING DING, winner winner chicken dinner!
This is EXACTLY the paradox of hitchens. Those that WANT to be easily offended...can be and often did. But if you REALLY listened to the man, you would not find a more gracoius purveyer of information. He was polite to a fault, but was unafraid to bash you with FACTS. There is a difference between providing facts and going Nuclear with Facts.
Hitchens is not abrasive, repeat, not abrasive. He is direct and deadly.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-12-2012, 03:46 PM
RE: At my job...
(06-12-2012 02:41 PM)sleepsoldier Wrote:  And yes, folks. Hyperbole. I could have picked any of the main voices that we ascribe to. I simply said Hitchens because I want so badly to just tell them to hush about it and when something really offends me the way they have, a Rolodex of responses start going through my brain. Everything from asking them to not talk about this at work to going full Hitch.

To be honest, I almost didn't post on here in the first place. And the reason why is because I see time and time again where someone like me comes on to this board to voice him or herself, and a thread discussion starts where he or she is demeaned or told their ideas are invalid. But I guess that's just the culture of the Internet.

One thing that religion has absolutely right is the sense of fellowship. It varies from church to church but its something that I think we are sorely lacking. I came here because I was so incredibly infuriated about something my boss and his wife said that I was almost in hulk mode. The only person in my life I can go to is my wife. She listens to me, but she doesn't truly understand the frustration and pain one feels of being told that their thoughts and ideas don't matter. Amish country doesn't have a large atheist population. The atheist groups anywhere near me are all incredibly hard to get in contact with, and a lot of the members are incredibly judgmental.

I thought I could just come here and let out some steam, and while I thank those who are allowing me to do so, please don't mistake my overly emotional reactions as being childish behavior. I am well aware of my environment, and the consequences of my actions. Which is why I feel the need to come here, so I don't have to sulk in my own feelings.

I listen to Seth's show because for one hour every week, I get to hear the voice of people just like me who are struggling through a lot of the same issues I am. I would identify myself if I went further, but I've had an incredibly hard time this past 12 years, and it only started getting better when I realized that there was no god. Once I took personal responsibility for my own life, things have gotten better.

Another rant down. I'm not trying to silence anyone here. I just guess I was hoping for less condescension and more fellowship amongst like minded people.
Not sure what you are looking for, but the responses have been generally constructive and helpful.

For my part, I would not want risk my job for this unless it became unbearably intrusive. Then I would tough it out until I had another job lined up.

Once I had another job, though, I would go full Hitch.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-12-2012, 03:50 PM
RE: At my job...
(06-12-2012 03:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-12-2012 02:41 PM)sleepsoldier Wrote:  And yes, folks. Hyperbole. I could have picked any of the main voices that we ascribe to. I simply said Hitchens because I want so badly to just tell them to hush about it and when something really offends me the way they have, a Rolodex of responses start going through my brain. Everything from asking them to not talk about this at work to going full Hitch.

To be honest, I almost didn't post on here in the first place. And the reason why is because I see time and time again where someone like me comes on to this board to voice him or herself, and a thread discussion starts where he or she is demeaned or told their ideas are invalid. But I guess that's just the culture of the Internet.

One thing that religion has absolutely right is the sense of fellowship. It varies from church to church but its something that I think we are sorely lacking. I came here because I was so incredibly infuriated about something my boss and his wife said that I was almost in hulk mode. The only person in my life I can go to is my wife. She listens to me, but she doesn't truly understand the frustration and pain one feels of being told that their thoughts and ideas don't matter. Amish country doesn't have a large atheist population. The atheist groups anywhere near me are all incredibly hard to get in contact with, and a lot of the members are incredibly judgmental.

I thought I could just come here and let out some steam, and while I thank those who are allowing me to do so, please don't mistake my overly emotional reactions as being childish behavior. I am well aware of my environment, and the consequences of my actions. Which is why I feel the need to come here, so I don't have to sulk in my own feelings.

I listen to Seth's show because for one hour every week, I get to hear the voice of people just like me who are struggling through a lot of the same issues I am. I would identify myself if I went further, but I've had an incredibly hard time this past 12 years, and it only started getting better when I realized that there was no god. Once I took personal responsibility for my own life, things have gotten better.

Another rant down. I'm not trying to silence anyone here. I just guess I was hoping for less condescension and more fellowship amongst like minded people.
Not sure what you are looking for, but the responses have been generally constructive and helpful.

For my part, I would not want risk my job for this unless it became unbearably intrusive. Then I would tough it out until I had another job lined up.

Once I had another job, though, I would go full Hitch.
Oh chas, you are so terse and deadly!
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06-12-2012, 05:06 PM
RE: At my job...
Generally constructive and helpful, yes.

I guess I came in here just for an iota of vindication, which I have received. But I can't help but notice the timbre of some comments as those who probably think I'm sitting at my workstation readying my response. Or who think of me as about to pop. That one thing my boss and his wife did was a trigger, I suppose. We all have them. This one just unleashed a lot of emotion on my end, and now it appears that he thinks that since I was around for that conversation and didn't object, that it must be okay now for him to say whatever he wants.

I do find it interesting what his beliefs are. He did make some points today that I fully agreed with, namely that most Christians don't believe the whole bible. They pick what they want out of it. That's objectively true. But he went on to say he believes the whole bible, front to back, which I silently snickered at a bit (as the contradictions stack up quite quickly if you believe the whole thing, and the whole thing falls apart the more you read it and reason) but he also outed himself as a Calvinist. We had a nice debate on the nature of good and bad. He contends that the measure by which someone is a good person is only if they cleanse themselves of the sin of their forefathers (original sin). It's an interesting idea. Having been raised catholic, we were taught original sin, but it was something we all had as a burden, not something that had to be cleansed. I contended that people are inherently good, but get in their own way and muck it up. I told him the reason I took the job working with him wasn't because of the pay or the access to technology or something, but that in my interview, I could tell he was a good man. That ended his preaching, which started when a lady wanted to talk about the secularization of Christmas, and was probably something that triggered his whole rant.

I'm very careful to let my atheism be private. I know all of my co-workers are pretty hardcore about their beliefs, and I respect that. I wish I could silence them all because it's really unprofessional to discuss things like this with your customers, in my opinion, but my boss is so much a part of his community that these customers, I think, have known him for so long that they just like to come in and tell him what they think about religion, politics, etc.

I know I have a thin skin with a lot of this, but I have felt in reading a lot of responses that people were just telling me to be an adult about this. Well, if I had completely done so, I wouldn't have had the need to come here at all. But someone somewhere said something that really made me mad, and I wanted to share it here in this community without being judged for my feelings.
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06-12-2012, 05:16 PM
RE: At my job...
(06-12-2012 05:06 PM)sleepsoldier Wrote:  Generally constructive and helpful, yes.

I guess I came in here just for an iota of vindication, which I have received. But I can't help but notice the timbre of some comments as those who probably think I'm sitting at my workstation readying my response. Or who think of me as about to pop. That one thing my boss and his wife did was a trigger, I suppose. We all have them. This one just unleashed a lot of emotion on my end, and now it appears that he thinks that since I was around for that conversation and didn't object, that it must be okay now for him to say whatever he wants.

I do find it interesting what his beliefs are. He did make some points today that I fully agreed with, namely that most Christians don't believe the whole bible. They pick what they want out of it. That's objectively true. But he went on to say he believes the whole bible, front to back, which I silently snickered at a bit (as the contradictions stack up quite quickly if you believe the whole thing, and the whole thing falls apart the more you read it and reason) but he also outed himself as a Calvinist. We had a nice debate on the nature of good and bad. He contends that the measure by which someone is a good person is only if they cleanse themselves of the sin of their forefathers (original sin). It's an interesting idea. Having been raised catholic, we were taught original sin, but it was something we all had as a burden, not something that had to be cleansed. I contended that people are inherently good, but get in their own way and muck it up. I told him the reason I took the job working with him wasn't because of the pay or the access to technology or something, but that in my interview, I could tell he was a good man. That ended his preaching, which started when a lady wanted to talk about the secularization of Christmas, and was probably something that triggered his whole rant.

I'm very careful to let my atheism be private. I know all of my co-workers are pretty hardcore about their beliefs, and I respect that. I wish I could silence them all because it's really unprofessional to discuss things like this with your customers, in my opinion, but my boss is so much a part of his community that these customers, I think, have known him for so long that they just like to come in and tell him what they think about religion, politics, etc.

I know I have a thin skin with a lot of this, but I have felt in reading a lot of responses that people were just telling me to be an adult about this. Well, if I had completely done so, I wouldn't have had the need to come here at all. But someone somewhere said something that really made me mad, and I wanted to share it here in this community without being judged for my feelings.
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06-12-2012, 05:19 PM
RE: At my job...
Also, no one is judging you for your feelings.

You're free to rant here and no one cares.

The only thing that was said (by me even) was to not go buck on your boss for your own good.

You're starting to have a bit a pity party for no apparent reason.

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07-12-2012, 06:50 AM
RE: At my job...
I went back and read all my posts and everyone else's with a set of different eyes.

You're right. I was having a pity party. Sorry, guys. I guess my feelings of isolation go deeper than I ever thought. One of the upsides to having a PhD candidate in psychology as a wife is that I get a lot of access to papers and studies. Looks quite like I was starting to show signs of a kind of co-dependency with this thread. Lol. Yikes.

I'll stop with the pity and stick to the facts from here on out.

Thanks for helping and letting me vent for a couple days, though, guys. Much appreciated.
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07-12-2012, 08:50 AM
RE: At my job...
We all need an outlet to vent sometimes and just say whatever. No issues there. I have had my fair share of pity party threads on this site, and I always feel better after putting it out there, regardless of what people say in it.

Your situation continues to sound eerily familiar. Your wife is in the psychology field? As is mine (mental health therapist MS). She is also a believer and lets me vent but I can also tell that most of the time she just doesn't quite get it.

As saving grace of mine is that I have moved out of TN and away from those that hold opinions like your boss. I still get it from my YEC father-in-law, but he lives in Ohio, so all I have to do is ignore him on facebook and I am good.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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07-12-2012, 09:15 AM
RE: At my job...
(07-12-2012 06:50 AM)sleepsoldier Wrote:  I went back and read all my posts and everyone else's with a set of different eyes.

You're right. I was having a pity party. Sorry, guys. I guess my feelings of isolation go deeper than I ever thought. One of the upsides to having a PhD candidate in psychology as a wife is that I get a lot of access to papers and studies. Looks quite like I was starting to show signs of a kind of co-dependency with this thread. Lol. Yikes.

I'll stop with the pity and stick to the facts from here on out.

Thanks for helping and letting me vent for a couple days, though, guys. Much appreciated.
Here's the deal:

I want you to come here to rant. I want you to get it out. Heck, I even want you to whine.

But, I don't want you to sabotage yourself IRL. This is why I was giving you advice about what to you and you interpreted as me dismissing or demeaning your feelings. I'm sorry if I came across that way.

I just didn't want to see you do something that you would regret later simply because you were annoyed and getting mad.

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