Atheism - A clearer understanding
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05-11-2012, 10:26 PM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
(05-11-2012 09:05 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Anti-theist: one who actively believes in the no existence in ANY Deity.
I have an antitheism website and I haven't heard the term used that way... Antitheism is the view that theism is harmful. It does not make a claim as to whether or not gods exist, only that religion is harmful.


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Antitheism

Positive/strong/hard atheism is saying "no gods exist."
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05-11-2012, 10:31 PM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
(05-11-2012 10:26 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(05-11-2012 09:05 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Anti-theist: one who actively believes in the no existence in ANY Deity.
I have an antitheism website and I haven't heard the term used that way... Antitheism is the view that theism is harmful. It does not make a claim as to whether or not gods exist, only that religion is harmful.


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Antitheism

Positive/strong/hard atheism is saying "no gods exist."

You are also right, but the Traditional Anti-theists do posit that there is no god.

There are traditionalists like that out there and they are correctly identified as anti-theists.

Antitheists(Which I am a part of) is indeed what you stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitheism

Both meanings are attributed to antitheists.

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05-11-2012, 11:08 PM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
Ah, ok. I've just heard it used more at present with that definition.
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05-11-2012, 11:10 PM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
(05-11-2012 11:08 PM)amyb Wrote:  Ah, ok. I've just heard it used more at present with that definition.
No problem. I am an antitheist in the sense you use so I am familiar with the terminology.

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06-11-2012, 07:20 AM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
(05-11-2012 10:30 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
Quote:The first statement: "Atheist - One who LACKs a belief in a deity." I think that's only partially correct.

Right, and that's the error you're making that everyone is trying to correct.

A belief regarding "X" is something you either have or you don't; there's no middle ground. Saying that you have no view either way is the same thing as saying that you have no belief, and you are therefore an atheist, although you probably won't self-identify as such because only atheists who care about the matter are likely to call themselves that.
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06-11-2012, 10:11 AM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
pianodwarf Wrote:Right, and that's the error you're making that everyone is trying to correct.

A belief regarding "X" is something you either have or you don't; there's no middle ground. Saying that you have no view either way is the same thing as saying that you have no belief, and you are therefore an atheist, although you probably won't self-identify as such because only atheists who care about the matter are likely to call themselves that.

Alright, so here's what I'm interpreting what you're saying:

Subject A believes God does not exist - He is an Atheist

Subject B was asked once on if he believe God exists, since he had never thought about the matter, he ponders for a minute and decides "no" - He is an Atheist

Subject C
has never thought about the question, has never heard of God and has never been asked about it - He is an Atheist

Subject D Believes God does exist - He is a Theist (Or Deist)

Basically, no matter what state a person is in, he/she is an Atheist if they haven't decided on being a Theist.

Is that correct?

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06-11-2012, 10:20 AM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
(06-11-2012 10:11 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Basically, no matter what state a person is in, he/she is an Atheist if they haven't decided on being a Theist.

Is that correct?
That's about the size of it. For comparison, try replacing "God" in all of your statements with "Sasquatch", and replace "atheist" with (for lack of a better term) "a-Sasquatchist". The only thing I would change is about "deciding on being a theist". People do not "decide" whether to believe in a deity. The human mind does not work that way.
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06-11-2012, 10:22 AM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
(05-11-2012 09:05 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(05-11-2012 10:30 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Ok, since I've recently established a more firm understanding of new terms regarding this, I'm going to try and put them together here to respond.

The first statement: "Atheist - One who LACKs a belief in a deity."

I think that's only partially correct. Say I go up to someone and ask "Do you believe a deity exists?" and their response is "No", they would rightly be identified as Atheist.
Now, to this new term that I've learned about 'Apatheist" - This would be a more accurate understanding of the persons response if his/her response was "I don't really have a view either way."

I do believe that the term Atheism is referring to particularly the individual that actually would respond in the negative with the question of Gods existence - regardless of his/her understanding of why they believe that way.
If one refers to the individual that does not have a view, then it would be more accurate to move on to a different category such as Apatheist that would more accurately portray the individuals current views. I think it would inaccurate to place the 'Atheist' (No God) title on someone who hasn't even made that view understood.

Someone who is Apatheist is about as close to Atheism as they are to Theism.
Ideas:

An apatheist is one who doesn't give a shit either way.

That's way different from "I don't believe in a God." All apatheists are is they don't care. An atheist can be apatheistic and so can theists.

My definitions are valid.

Atheist: one who lacks a belief in a deity.

Apatheist: one who couldn't give a fuck either way.

Anti-theist: one who actively believes in the no existence in ANY Deity.

Agnostic. One who maintains that it is not possible to determine or know if a god exists.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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06-11-2012, 10:28 AM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
(06-11-2012 10:11 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
pianodwarf Wrote:Right, and that's the error you're making that everyone is trying to correct.

A belief regarding "X" is something you either have or you don't; there's no middle ground. Saying that you have no view either way is the same thing as saying that you have no belief, and you are therefore an atheist, although you probably won't self-identify as such because only atheists who care about the matter are likely to call themselves that.

Alright, so here's what I'm interpreting what you're saying:

Subject A believes God does not exist - He is an Atheist

Subject B was asked once on if he believe God exists, since he had never thought about the matter, he ponders for a minute and decides "no" - He is an Atheist

Subject C
has never thought about the question, has never heard of God and has never been asked about it - He is an Atheist

Subject D Believes God does exist - He is a Theist (Or Deist)

Basically, no matter what state a person is in, he/she is an Atheist if they haven't decided on being a Theist.

Is that correct?
Yup.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-11-2012, 10:32 AM
RE: Atheism - A clearer understanding
No.

You still don't understand the difference between strong atheism (there is no god) and weak atheism (I see no reason to believe in god). Here's your thing, better written.






Subject A has studied religion and the arguments for god and has decided that the evidence against god is too strong; god cannot exist. He is a (strong) Atheist (he may still concede the possibility of a deist or pantheist god since these are impossible to disprove, but he will reject any theistic god)

Subject B has studied religion (perhaps more or perhaps less than Subject A) and has decided that there isn't enough evidence to disprove gods, but there isn't enough evidence to prove them either. Since religion has the burden of proof to show their god exists, Subject B stops worshiping or believing in gods. He is a (weak) Atheist.

Subject C has never thought about the question, has never heard of God and has never been asked about it. You could call him an atheist in a loose sense of the word, but he's actually an Apatheist.

Subject D believes in a god and a dogma, and follows the tenets of a religion with rules, ceremonies, and claim about the history of the world. He is a Theist.

Subject E believes there is a god but looks at all the suffering in the world and decides that God doesn't care about humanity. He is a Deist.

Subject F believes that we're all part of a giant, universal god-like consciousness. He is a special type of theist called a Pantheist.

Subject G doesn't believe in god, but does believe in magic, spirits, and other supernatural things. He could *technically* be called an atheist, but is more accurately called a Spiritualist.

Subject H has studied many religions and doesn't know which one is right. He may be in transition between beliefs or may have decided knowing the truth is impossible. He is an Agnostic.

Subject I believes the idea of "god" is inherently flawed, and that until someone can provide a better definition of what god is, or someone provides evidence of this god thing, the question is moot. He is an Igtheist, and also usually an agnostic or atheist.

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