Atheism : A feeling of the Mind
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27-02-2015, 08:57 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2015 09:07 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Atheism : A feeling of the Mind
(27-02-2015 05:47 AM)Blackout Wrote:  
Quote:Welcome. While it is disingenuous to assert that all atheists are intelligent (they aren't) or that all religious people are ignorant (they aren't) on average, this is actually true.
I have a question - What you said is true and countless studies + surveys over the years have showed that the more intelligent you are the less likely you are to be religious - But why does it matter so much? From my experience, intelligent people can say really dumb things and less smart people sometimes say really rational smart things. I don't like putting intelligence on a pedestal because it doesn't make anyone a better human being. The most inspiring atheist I've met is my dad and he's not very educated or smart, he's a bit redneck and doesn't know much about science - But his words kill god.

I don't know how high is my IQ, the online tests say 140 but that's bullshit. I'm not interested in knowing either way because from what I've been told depending on the test some people score higher and then lower. It's not predictable.

Another important point is answering the question - What is intelligence? Because I'm pretty sure it's not just IQ tests.

Maybe I'm going off topic so I'm sorry.

No, at the end of the day it doesn't matter. IQ tests mean you do well with tests, have good comprehension skills, think a specific way and are "moderately intelligent at the minimum". It is like pointing to a college degree as proof of being smarter than someone else, or more intelligent. All a college degree means is you are perhaps more educated than someone who doesn't have a degree, not necessarily smarter, and of course not a better human being either. What kind of degree matters too in my opinion, a BA in liberal ARTS means "I went to school for 4 years and did all of the lowest level courses available"(no offense to those who have that degree, mine is in Crim Just for goodness sake, not exactly rocket science lol)...whereas an engineering degree or medical degree would presumably require more effort, focus and maybe even "intelligence". I am working on my third degree, so I can say with some degree of honesty that it doesn't take much "intelligence" to do well in college, just time. My degrees, and IQ do not make me a better or lesser human being, they just make me who I am...one of millions in the same status. IQ and college, belief or non belief are not the litmus test for human value.

I don't sling the IQ sword around as a debating tool, unless the theist tries to say atheists on average are dumber then theists, or less moral, then I drop the neat little hammer called facts on them. But facts are subjective, when you pick and choose studies to prove your point, it doesn't necessarily indicate truth in the big picture of things, now does it?

Now, all that being said, *takes off PC hat* if you look at maps of the US for example, and compare and contrast levels of religious belief, education, health, and crime statistics, you get some interesting, thought-provoking results. It is easy to draw the conclusion that the south is full of ignorant, fat, uneducated religious dumbass criminals based purely on those statistics available...where religion has a stranglehold....low income, education and high levels of crime exist, where religion does not have a stranglehold just the opposite seems to be the reality.....causation or simply correlation? The two are distinctly different.

Now as our kindly theist KingChosen pointed out in his reply, using wit and sarcasm (two of my favorite tools as well)...a theist does not an idiot make....just perhaps a delusioned one Big Grin

As I said in my post, and underlined the word all specifically to draw attention to my point, "While it is disingenuous to assert that all atheists are intelligent (they aren't) or that all religious people are ignorant (they aren't) on average, this is actually true." That is a true statement based on AVERAGES. There are brilliant theists, and ignorant ass atheists. But in general, on average, we tend to have the upper quadrant on IQ. Does that mean anything? NO. Does that make us better human beings? No. Does our dismissal of fairy tales and delusion make us better? no, just more enlightened Cool

In the end, we are all in this human experience together, smart and dumb, believer and non believer. I do feel religion is evil to the core, and has a very minimal positive impact on the world in comparison to its negative impact overall...but that is just my experience and opinion, and we all have one of those. Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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27-02-2015, 09:03 AM
RE: Atheism : A feeling of the Mind
(26-02-2015 05:29 PM)Hellbound Alleee Wrote:  I have to say, I think emotion is a big part of this--being an atheist stuff. I think we ARE pretty much hard-wired to believe. If you were part of a group of believers, and you don't get that Holy Ghost syndrome, it is a powerful feeling--being left out, basically.

That's not "hard-wired" at all. That's totally environmental.
Emotion may have had something to do with my belief, but it had nothing to do with my deconversion.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-02-2015, 11:06 AM
RE: Atheism : A feeling of the Mind
(27-02-2015 07:50 AM)666wannabe Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 09:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  There are plenty of intelligent people who believe in or believed in a god, for whatever reason.

Maybe, it is not that many intelligent people "believe" in God, but rather "claim" to believe in God for pragmatic reasons. There are definitely social benefits for this claim--not rocking the boat, going with the flow, etc.

There is an especial pragmatic motivation for claiming to believe in God in the political realm--it is very difficult for an outed atheist to get elected to any political office.

I don't mean to say that intelligent people have pretended to believe in a god (some may very well have), but that intelligence is not what determines one's belief or disbelief in a god.

Just like there can be stupid people who don't buy into the 9/11 conspiracies, and intelligent people who do.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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28-02-2015, 02:41 PM
RE: Atheism : A feeling of the Mind
(27-02-2015 09:03 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 05:29 PM)Hellbound Alleee Wrote:  I have to say, I think emotion is a big part of this--being an atheist stuff. I think we ARE pretty much hard-wired to believe. If you were part of a group of believers, and you don't get that Holy Ghost syndrome, it is a powerful feeling--being left out, basically.

That's not "hard-wired" at all. That's totally environmental.
Emotion may have had something to do with my belief, but it had nothing to do with my deconversion.
There's strong evidence that human brains are hard-wired to believe in superstition.
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28-02-2015, 05:07 PM
RE: Atheism : A feeling of the Mind
(28-02-2015 02:41 PM)brunogoncalves Wrote:  
(27-02-2015 09:03 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That's not "hard-wired" at all. That's totally environmental.
Emotion may have had something to do with my belief, but it had nothing to do with my deconversion.
There's strong evidence that human brains are hard-wired to believe in superstition.

I’d love to see a citation. I have read that we are hard-wired for language http://www.northeastern.edu/cos/2014/04/iris-berent/ and to see patterns (Pareidolia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

I found this http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...-make-you/ but not the same as “hard-wired”.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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28-02-2015, 05:22 PM
RE: Atheism : A feeling of the Mind
(28-02-2015 05:07 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(28-02-2015 02:41 PM)brunogoncalves Wrote:  There's strong evidence that human brains are hard-wired to believe in superstition.

I’d love to see a citation. I have read that we are hard-wired for language http://www.northeastern.edu/cos/2014/04/iris-berent/ and to see patterns (Pareidolia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

I found this http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...-make-you/ but not the same as “hard-wired”.
All known human societies worship some kind of God and have religious rituals. No doubt environment plays an important role how religion affects society, but it seems humans are emotionally programmed to believe in "something" that provides them the belief they have control over their lives, death and the unknown.

The tools to fight superstition are knowledge and reason.

http://m.livescience.com/14504-superstit...harms.html
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28-02-2015, 08:01 PM
RE: Atheism : A feeling of the Mind
I think it's a result of our pattern seeking nature. We have to seek patterns - intelligence does this all the time. The thing is that absence of patterns makes us uncomfortable.

We create patterns in everyday life (habits and routines) and randomness is difficult for people to understand.

The gods are just a way to help make patterns - i.e. make sense of things. As in the gods of the gaps. Plus the sense of belonging the community provides, and the rituals.

It's all about pattern seeking. That's why I am hopeful for the future of atheism - with the information about most anything being available to most everyone, facts can start filling the holes in the patterns...and the god explanations will not be needed.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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