Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
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12-09-2014, 12:36 PM
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
(12-09-2014 12:27 PM)Riqposso Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 12:21 PM)pablo Wrote:  Speciesism has a lot to do with it. As a vegan you have surely killed another living creature because you deemed it's species less significant than others.
What I'm getting at is this. Where do you draw the line? What in your eyes deserves our respect, and what is insignificant?
What all matters is being sentient, conscious and some other..

Having emotions and a different way of expressing itself, having some kind of commune or family just like us etc.

I care about plants, too Unsure

(12-09-2014 12:25 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Go look up how Kobe Beef cows are raised and tell me they are being abused.

Found it mate --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI4oiId47dM

Awesomee

What about insects? Should we be careful with every step not to crush a bug? How many do we run over with our cars or explode on our windshields while driving? Is this type of killing ok because we are unaware of it?
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12-09-2014, 12:48 PM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2014 12:54 PM by Riqposso.)
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
(12-09-2014 12:36 PM)pablo Wrote:  What about insects? Should we be careful with every step not to crush a bug? How many do we run over with our cars or explode on our windshields while driving? Is this type of killing ok because we are unaware of it?

All sentient beings matters, including insects Sleepy A lot of them die at farms and croplands, too like rats, snakes etc.- A vegan wouldn't think of killing the animal like if he's in 'Crisis Situation' , He or she would try to get rid of them in other ways with causing the least damage.. That's why he wouldn't drive, too I suppose Big Grin

What a f*ggot, eh?

Awareness and being sentient is clear on where you look at the subject, isn't it?

Edit1 : They don't eat honey as well

His neighbour brings Ashure , They eat it with bread !
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12-09-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
(12-09-2014 12:48 PM)Riqposso Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 12:36 PM)pablo Wrote:  What about insects? Should we be careful with every step not to crush a bug? How many do we run over with our cars or explode on our windshields while driving? Is this type of killing ok because we are unaware of it?

All sentient beings matters, including insects Sleepy A lot of them die at farms and croplands, too like rats, snakes etc.- A vegan wouldn't think of killing the animal like if he's in 'Crisis Situation' , He or she would try to get rid of them in other ways with causing the least damage.. That's why he wouldn't drive, too I suppose Big Grin

What a f*ggot, eh?

Awareness and being sentient is clear on where you look at the subject, isn't it?

Edit1 : They don't eat honey as well

I'm not calling anyone any names. I'm not against veganism either. I'm curious about where the line is drawn. It just seems so hypocritical to me. Why does a vegan get to say I'm wrong for eating meat because it's killing when they are also killing for different reasons?
Are you saying it's acceptable to kill something as long as it doesn't have emotions like us?
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12-09-2014, 01:15 PM
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
(12-09-2014 12:19 PM)Riqposso Wrote:  Do animals have right to live or they're just meant to be used by capitalist forces and humans for cancer ? Lol Im no real Vegan, just common sense Big Grin

Careful, you're making the same mistake as the Forks Over Knives and China Study people: conflating a diet that includes meat with a standard american diet. There is a huge difference between grass fed beef and a hot dog. Meat doesn't equal cancer.

Vegan diets aren't healthy. I eat animals because I place my own well being above their well being. That being said, I am sensitive to the cruelty issue, so I make an effort to avoid conventional, factory farmed meat and support farmers who don't inflict unnecessary suffering on the animals in their care. If a cow has to die to feed me, at least it can be a happy cow while it was alive.

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12-09-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
Hnmm. We've gone round this bend a few times before.

As for me, I'd say that an animal lacking self-awareness of its own mortality, dying a sudden, painless death... that's not suffering, and I don't see it as immoral (or at least, not of itself). One might have different opinions as to what constitutes humane treatment or what constitutes animal cruelty - but those are of course subjective ideas. How close modern industrial-scale farming gets to that ideal is another matter.
(more like how far)

A far more convincing argument, to me, is from an ecological perspective. Consuming higher trophic levels is by definition much less efficient.

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12-09-2014, 02:03 PM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2014 02:07 PM by Riqposso.)
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
(12-09-2014 01:13 PM)pablo Wrote:  I'm not calling anyone any names. I'm not against veganism either. I'm curious about where the line is drawn. It just seems so hypocritical to me. Why does a vegan get to say I'm wrong for eating meat because it's killing when they are also killing for different reasons?
Are you saying it's acceptable to kill something as long as it doesn't have emotions like us?

Killing something like what ? And please tell why you think it's hypocratical

Also no one told you that you're wrong, only said; how can we say that we care about animals if we're eating them while it's possible(for real) to live without their suffering ? If you don't care, how could it matter?

(12-09-2014 01:15 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  Careful, you're making the same mistake as the Forks Over Knives and China Study people: conflating a diet that includes meat with a standard american diet. There is a huge difference between grass fed beef and a hot dog. Meat doesn't equal cancer.

Vegan diets aren't healthy. I eat animals because I place my own well being above their well being. That being said, I am sensitive to the cruelty issue, so I make an effort to avoid conventional, factory farmed meat and support farmers who don't inflict unnecessary suffering on the animals in their care. If a cow has to die to feed me, at least it can be a happy cow while it was alive.

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All the mainstream and independent health organizations state that 'any' diet can be healthy as long as it provides essential nutrients and it is varied enough, ex. Frutarianism Drinking Beverage

It's true that there is a huge difference between grass-fed and factory farmed beef, and you're also probably aware of resource freak animal products' industries trying to have the most profit as they can, but after all, veganism isn't a diet- It's an ethical position on the side of animals and being healthy is its gift.. There is no reason to insist on that they 'have to' be killed, as long as you've the substitutes

(12-09-2014 01:59 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Hnmm. We've gone round this bend a few times before.

As for me, I'd say that an animal lacking self-awareness of its own mortality, dying a sudden, painless death... that's not suffering, and I don't see it as immoral (or at least, not of itself). One might have different opinions as to what constitutes humane treatment or what constitutes animal cruelty - but those are of course subjective ideas. How close modern industrial-scale farming gets to that ideal is another matter.
(more like how far)

A far more convincing argument, to me, is from an ecological perspective. Consuming higher trophic levels is by definition much less efficient.

There is a whole phylosphy starting from Descartes to Schopenhauer for that, and we can empathy on dying animals- We acknowledge they wanna live, survive, just like us
Is the right to live given or already existing for the ones who are self-aware for some point ?

His neighbour brings Ashure , They eat it with bread !
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12-09-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
I'm not going vegan...

So piss off.

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12-09-2014, 02:10 PM
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
(12-09-2014 02:07 PM)Sam Wrote:  I'm not going vegan...

So piss off.
No Problem, who cares Big Grin Even I'm not %100 Tongue Just 17 years old, damn.. Look what I'm into

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12-09-2014, 02:11 PM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2014 11:06 AM by cjlr.)
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
(12-09-2014 02:03 PM)Riqposso Wrote:  It's true that there is a huge difference between grass-fed and factory farmed beef, and you're also probably aware of resource freak animal products' industries trying to have the most profit as they can, but after all, veganism isn't a diet- It's an ethical position on the side of animals and being healthy is its gift.. There is no reason to insist on that they 'have to' be killed, as long as you've the substitutes

But what is the animal that "has" to be killed?

The one whose habitat was destroyed to plant the field of crops you eat?

The one was run over by the truck delivering the crop to the store?

The pest you kill in your own home?

The parasite you kill in your own body?

As a theoretical question - what is the difference between low-impact and humane raising of animals for consumption and any or all of the above, which are necessary for all human life?

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12-09-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: Atheism: A milestone on the road of Veganism ?
To me veganism is bullshit. You will never get protein from soy like you can meat, and at least non-vegans can also eat eggs nuts, plus beans. Veganism is horrible when it comes to protein , there is a reason vegans tend more protein problems than omnivores.

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