Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-11-2015, 05:19 PM
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
Quote: But God did evil to the women by making David's son rape them. It wasn't a natural cause and effect of someone's actions. God made it happen. That is an evil being.
Yes. But he didn't do it just because he felt like it. David sinned, and this was the result of it. Its kinda like if you are punished if you do evil, consequences happens. In this case, because David disobeyed god he made this happen as a result.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2015, 05:19 PM
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
(23-11-2015 05:12 PM)Keiya Wrote:  God's covenant with Moses was that you shall not believe in other gods than him.

No. The Hebrew believed in all sorts of gods. The Covenant was they would not WORSHIP, (not stop "believing" in other gods.) Obviously you never studied the Bible.
The command was not to have "strange gods *before me*. Says nothing about belief. Many many time the OT talks about Yahweh being the greatest of all the gods. They all believed in many gods.

Quote:I believe in god. Hitler was more into cultural ideas and eugenics. I don't worship cultural history or the idea of a perfect race. So no, not at all. I hope you don't compare me with him though.

You share the same philosophy. Utilitarianism. You yourself said so. YOU made the comparison inevitable.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
23-11-2015, 05:24 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2015 05:27 PM by Keiya.)
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
(23-11-2015 05:19 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 05:12 PM)Keiya Wrote:  God's covenant with Moses was that you shall not believe in other gods than him.

No. The Hebrew believed in all sorts of gods. The Covenant was they would not WORSHIP, (not stop "believing" in other gods.) Obviously you never studies the Bible.
I believe in god. Hitler was more into cultural ideas and eugenics. I don't worship cultural history or the idea of a perfect race. So no, not at all. I hope you don't compare me with him though.
[/quote]

You share the same philosophy. Utilitarianism. You yourself said so. YOU made the comparison inevitable.
[/quote]

And the reason is because there is only one god to judge us Smile

Quote:Regardless, the passage clearly states that atheists, apostates, and pagans deserve death.

Of course I'm not saying you would do this. What I am saying, however, is your holy book says you must.

If i were following jewish laws, yes i would. Atleast in terms if people try to persuade others to disbelieve and to cast aside god, in terms of old times as it was back then. But things changed. God saw people were inable to follow his laws. So Jesus was sent that anybody who wants to accept his message can believe.

But you also have to look at it through historical context, even pagans in the past killed for their gods. Justice come through this belief in my view that god is the one worthy of worship.

So no. I won't kill people for believing differently. Their hearts have to accept God. We live in that world now. And i don't believe in theocracy either, this is due to forcing someone is not the same as accepting, but now its more in terms of politics so Tongue

Quote:Utilitarianism
I don't know about this, i just searched quickly for it. But from i can gather from its definition, it means "Something useful". Like i am not using religion to just serve me, it helps automatically that comes from believing. I am also doing it because i believe it to be true. But i do believe it helps me live a better life.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2015, 05:26 PM
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
(23-11-2015 05:12 PM)Keiya Wrote:  
Quote: Your holy book demands you kill us atheists and the pagans.
God's covenant with Moses was that you shall not believe in other gods than him. In this case its refering to israelites way of gaining the one true worship. Thats the key point in this case is to serve a theological point. People will walk their own way, but not on god's way. Jesus is basically that open gift. He did not come to condemn the world but to save the world through him ^^
Quote:So you believe in Utilitarianism also. What is useful is what is good. Whether it's true or not, is irrelevant. Adderal (uppers) get more done too. But thanks for admitting religion is a psychologicical crutch for you, and is useful. Hitler thought that what was useful was what determined what was good also. Interesting ethic you got going there.
I believe in god. Hitler was more into cultural ideas and eugenics. I don't worship cultural history or the idea of a perfect race. So no, not at all. I hope you don't compare me with him though.

btw, go to google.com : 3. Lucy in evolution theory is there Tongue

geez where to start?

Let's see

There is ZERO evidence for a god, so there's that.

Moses was not a real person, he was a fabrication character from older hero god types in ancient legends....education is the key to power, embrace some.

Not one person who EVER wrote of jesus, knew him. All stories, and people love to tell stories don't they?

But in reference to the mythical god who gave the never existed moses the ten commmandments, isn't it odd that rape, incest and slavery didn't make the top ten don't do it list, but covet not thy neighbor did....it is almost as if a man wrote those...oh wait, that is because they did.

The creator of god is man, made in our own image.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
23-11-2015, 05:29 PM
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
(23-11-2015 05:19 PM)Keiya Wrote:  
Quote: But God did evil to the women by making David's son rape them. It wasn't a natural cause and effect of someone's actions. God made it happen. That is an evil being.
Yes. But he didn't do it just because he felt like it. David sinned, and this was the result of it. Its kinda like if you are punished if you do evil, consequences happens. In this case, because David disobeyed god he made this happen as a result.

God was forced to have the women raped? He couldn't find a way to punish David that didn't involve harming innocent parties?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2015, 05:34 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2015 05:38 PM by Keiya.)
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
(23-11-2015 05:26 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 05:12 PM)Keiya Wrote:  God's covenant with Moses was that you shall not believe in other gods than him. In this case its refering to israelites way of gaining the one true worship. Thats the key point in this case is to serve a theological point. People will walk their own way, but not on god's way. Jesus is basically that open gift. He did not come to condemn the world but to save the world through him ^^
I believe in god. Hitler was more into cultural ideas and eugenics. I don't worship cultural history or the idea of a perfect race. So no, not at all. I hope you don't compare me with him though.

btw, go to google.com : 3. Lucy in evolution theory is there Tongue

geez where to start?

Let's see

There is ZERO evidence for a god, so there's that.

Moses was not a real person, he was a fabrication character from older hero god types in ancient legends....education is the key to power, embrace some.

Not one person who EVER wrote of jesus, knew him. All stories, and people love to tell stories don't they?

But in reference to the mythical god who gave the never existed moses the ten commmandments, isn't it odd that rape, incest and slavery didn't make the top ten don't do it list, but covet not thy neighbor did....it is almost as if a man wrote those...oh wait, that is because they did.

The creator of god is man, made in our own image.

I am glad you asked this question.

I am very well aware from top scholars that the gospels are not an eyewitness account. But the fact that historians accept the stuff that is in it as historical facts like "Baptism" and "crucifixion" is crucial to it being true.

Even though they may be ultimately sceptic in terms of Jesus' teachings Tongue
So what if they were stories told by christians. That doesn't make them less reliable or true. In Paul's letters which is from him, you see stuff with the same message "Jesus was crucified, raised from the death" if this is not true then christianity as we know it has no ground to stand on. Which is why i believe it.

As for moses... i am well aware. But it doesn't matter in this case. Jesus could've just use theological point. This disproves more judaism than christianity since they need more ground in this case.

Well because rape and incest is wrong. War is awful though where awful stuff happens, its the consequences of it happening. Evil itself is wicked.
Also incest is condemned in leviticus. Even if some earlier have that part with Lot and his daughters.

God is a philosophical view, so i am not denying that people are ultimately sceptic of the idea. But what differs god from... fairytales as you would call it Tongue. Is that he is more central to our origin of life and behavior. Thats kinda what differs in practice, while fairytales are more just for amusements.
Quote: God was forced to have the women raped? He couldn't find a way to punish David that didn't involve harming innocent parties?
Everything is written this way to teach a theological point of view. Its not up to us to pick and choose Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2015, 05:41 PM
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
(23-11-2015 05:34 PM)Keiya Wrote:  I am glad you asked this question.

I am very well aware from top scholars that the gospels are not an eyewitness account. But the fact that historians accept the stuff that is in it as historical facts like "Baptism" and "crucifixion" is crucial to it being true.

Even though they may be ultimately sceptic in terms of Jesus' teachings Tongue

You have it bass-ackwards. Facepalm

Historians do not accept those as fact and many probably do agree with much of what Jesus is said to have preached because most of it is not original or unique to Jesus or Christianity.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
23-11-2015, 05:45 PM
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
(23-11-2015 05:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 05:34 PM)Keiya Wrote:  I am glad you asked this question.

I am very well aware from top scholars that the gospels are not an eyewitness account. But the fact that historians accept the stuff that is in it as historical facts like "Baptism" and "crucifixion" is crucial to it being true.

Even though they may be ultimately sceptic in terms of Jesus' teachings Tongue

You have it bass-ackwards. Facepalm

Historians do not accept those as fact and many probably do agree with much of what Jesus is said to have preached because most of it is not original or unique to Jesus or Christianity.

The reason they don't accept it is because its not written by eyewitnesses as they say. From what we know its stories passed down by christians in early church communities who remember what people told.

So thats usually why historians will not call it reliable as i know off.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2015, 06:01 PM
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
(23-11-2015 12:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 11:39 AM)Keiya Wrote:  I had no way of disproving it. So i just came to believe in it.

Can you disprove pixies or faeries or trolls? Consider

Your reasoning is childish. Drinking Beverage

Well, one trip to San Francisco proves to me that fairies exist.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2015, 06:18 PM
RE: Atheism: Ignorance on "the old and new covenant"
(23-11-2015 05:24 PM)Keiya Wrote:  
Quote:Regardless, the passage clearly states that atheists, apostates, and pagans deserve death.

Of course I'm not saying you would do this. What I am saying, however, is your holy book says you must.

If i were following jewish laws, yes i would. Atleast in terms if people try to persuade others to disbelieve and to cast aside god, in terms of old times as it was back then. But things changed. God saw people were inable to follow his laws. So Jesus was sent that anybody who wants to accept his message can believe.

But you also have to look at it through historical context, even pagans in the past killed for their gods. Justice come through this belief in my view that god is the one worthy of worship.
But it's not Jewish law. Matthew 5 insists that all laws are still binding. That means Levitical law still applies. I'm not sure why Christians still claim that they shouldn't follow Old Testament law, when in fact the New Testament says they must. I used to be a Christian, too, and I realized this, too.

So you admit pagans and Christians have so much in common. Doesn't sound like there's anything different, except the name of your gods. At least when I talk to a Hindu, Shinto, Jew, or other, they don't discount half of their own holy book.

Like I said, I'm not saying you condone that behavior. I just cannot understand why Christians cherry pick what rules they want to follow. And the excuse is always either "That's old covenant" (when it is not) or "That's not what it means" (when it spells it out).
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: