Atheism Leads to Nihilism
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16-05-2013, 09:14 AM
Atheism Leads to Nihilism
This came up on facebook. Person's making the claim that nihilism is the only logical conclusion from nihilism.

He finds humanism and other philosophies to be otherwise unfounded.

Not being deeply philosophical myself, is this fellow right?
I'll admit, I read up on nihilism and I see that much of it fits a secular view of morality.
Now, I see myself as a humanist, not as a nihilist.

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16-05-2013, 09:20 AM
RE: Atheism Leads to Nihilism
(16-05-2013 09:14 AM)KeenIdiot Wrote:  This came up on facebook. Person's making the claim that nihilism is the only logical conclusion from nihilism.

He finds humanism and other philosophies to be otherwise unfounded.

Not being deeply philosophical myself, is this fellow right?
I'll admit, I read up on nihilism and I see that much of it fits a secular view of morality.
Now, I see myself as a humanist, not as a nihilist.

I think it comes down to a perception of control. A nihilist doesn't believe the he/she controls himself/herself and that the outcomes have already been determined.

Something like that. Ask Girly. He knows more.

But, from what I understand, nihilism is a non-Christian Calvinistic belief system.

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16-05-2013, 10:42 AM
RE: Atheism Leads to Nihilism
(16-05-2013 09:14 AM)KeenIdiot Wrote:  This came up on facebook. Person's making the claim that nihilism is the only logical conclusion from nihilism.

He finds humanism and other philosophies to be otherwise unfounded.

Not being deeply philosophical myself, is this fellow right?
I'll admit, I read up on nihilism and I see that much of it fits a secular view of morality.
Now, I see myself as a humanist, not as a nihilist.

First I think you meant to say "conclusion from atheism".
Second, there are many definitions of Nihilism, so you're going to have to define it.
If by Nihilism you mean a lack of imposed, or perceived "purpose" or "meaning", (coming from religion), it's false. Everyone, including religionists, find meaning where they find it. SOme in work, some in family, some in many other things. Religionists *say* they find it in one of the various aspects of religion, but it's as varied as there are brains.

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16-05-2013, 11:01 AM
RE: Atheism Leads to Nihilism
Yes I did, in my defense I was very tired when writing this.

And yes, that would be his definition. Actually, he phrased it as either Catholicism or Nihilism.

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16-05-2013, 01:50 PM
Re: Atheism Leads to Nihilism
Its another phoney assumption.

A lot of reasons Christians in debating will equate atheism=nihilism Is because they'll take the argument God is everything.
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16-05-2013, 02:28 PM
RE: Atheism Leads to Nihilism
(16-05-2013 01:50 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Its another phoney assumption.

A lot of reasons Christians in debating will equate atheism=nihilism Is because they'll take the argument God is everything.

It makes atheism sound more bleak and hopeless or something.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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16-05-2013, 03:53 PM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2013 12:10 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Atheism Leads to Nihilism
(16-05-2013 09:14 AM)KeenIdiot Wrote:  Person's making the claim that nihilism is the only logical conclusion from atheism.

This argument comes from Sartre's claim: "My atheist existentialism is rather more coherent. It declares that God does not exist, yet there is still a being in whom existence precedes essence, a being which exists before being defined by any concept, and this being is man or, as Heidegger puts it, human reality. That means that man first exists, encounters himself and emerges in the world, to be defined afterwards. Thus, there is no human nature, since there is no God to conceive it. It is man who conceives himself, who propels himself towards existence. Man becomes nothing other than what is actually done, not what he will want to be." In other words, if no God then no eternal or ultimate meaning or purpose. It's been used by Christian theologians in the past to argue that rejection of theism entails nihilism. But while the argument is valid if you accept Sartre's premise as sound, it seriously misrepresents nihilism, or at least the "active" nihilism proposed by Nietszche's Übermensch and the Existentialists. The "active" nihilist/existentialist does not merely stop after deconstructing and leveling the concept of ultimate meaning or purpose like the passive nihilism of Schopenhauer. It not only allows for the introduction of a personal responsibility for creating meaning, it requires it. Nietszche characterizes this active vs. passive nihilism as the "will to power" vs. the "will to nothingness". By denying ultimate meaning it exalts local, artificial meaning to its proper position.

(16-05-2013 09:14 AM)KeenIdiot Wrote:  Now, I see myself as a humanist, not as a nihilist.

but but but ... Existentialism is a Humanism. - Sartre Big Grin

(16-05-2013 09:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I think it comes down to a perception of control. A nihilist doesn't believe the he/she controls himself/herself and that the outcomes have already been determined.

Quite the opposite.

(16-05-2013 10:42 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Everyone, including religionists, find meaning where they find it.

The nihilist doesn't "find" meaning, she makes it. Tongue

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16-05-2013, 04:00 PM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2013 04:06 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Atheism Leads to Nihilism
(16-05-2013 09:14 AM)KeenIdiot Wrote:  This came up on facebook. Person's making the claim that nihilism is the only logical conclusion from nihilism.

He finds humanism and other philosophies to be otherwise unfounded.

Not being deeply philosophical myself, is this fellow right?
I'll admit, I read up on nihilism and I see that much of it fits a secular view of morality.
Now, I see myself as a humanist, not as a nihilist.

The problem is the false assumption that god is everything or the cause of everything. Once you reject that, they think nothing is the natural conclusion of that result.

What they fail completely to understand is that, for the science minded individual, the most beautiful thing is how the world works.

A fly becomes a mass of cells. Each cell with specialized functions aiding the organism as a whole. It's the living stage of a process of evolution that has been going on since the beginning of life on the earth. The DNA that makes up every cell of that body of the fly is also related to us.

Science is a way of taking the mundane aspects of the world around us, and making it more beautiful than we thought possible. We all are interconnected to it.

This is what they don't see.

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16-05-2013, 06:30 PM
RE: Atheism Leads to Nihilism
(16-05-2013 09:14 AM)KeenIdiot Wrote:  This came up on facebook. Person's making the claim that nihilism is the only logical conclusion from nihilism.

He finds humanism and other philosophies to be otherwise unfounded.

Not being deeply philosophical myself, is this fellow right?
I'll admit, I read up on nihilism and I see that much of it fits a secular view of morality.
Now, I see myself as a humanist, not as a nihilist.

nihilism is not the same as atheism but has similar qualities. nihilism, says nothing can be known or communicated. then there can be no consensus. and obviously we, most of us, can agree on rape being wrong or the fact that the probability of a deity striking us dead for blasphemy is very unlikely. i entertain the fact that the universe is mostly empty space, but it is not nothing. i do exsist. as im sure you do as well. im sure we have some of the same morals despite our not knowing eachother at all. the real danger is the same as any other line of thinking, eliteism. when atheists think of people as lesser evolved or low functioning there can be a rationalisation to institute eugenics. solipsism is the philosophy that the self is the only true reality. i enjoy this philosophy more, because when you hurt someone, youre really hurting yourself. ha. the evidence is clear when someone harms another it affects everyone around them. although i dont think the kids in the youtube comments got the message. cheers

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17-05-2013, 03:36 AM
RE: Atheism Leads to Nihilism
The only place atheism leads is away from religion. End of story.

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