Atheism Plus

[amyb]

I've heard it said elsewhere that they do this because they feel they have something to prove; religious folks try to marry their religion with their "morality," so some atheists want to sort of do the same thing. In other words, it's because of insecurity: religious folks might say atheists are immoral, and these chumps say, "Oh yeah? Atheism+ is all about human rights and not raping people!"

Totally unnecessary and pointless, in any case.

[evenheathen]

Man, are those assholes still trying to push that shit? I ran across their forum shortly after becoming an atheist and it almost made me turn back to religion. I'm all for social justice, just not being retarded about it. I've ignored the topic since and found better people to share ideas with. Namely, all of you assholes!

[Luminon]

(20-01-2013 02:24 AM)amyb Wrote:  I just don't see the need. Even if it weren't dominated by nutters, I think there is exactly one thing all atheists have in common: lack of belief in god(s). Once you start adding all this shit, you're not going to get agreement, and you're going to get this elitist club with a bunch of arbitrary rules.

Now, I'm for equal rights/pay/etc for women, gay rights, and so on, but I would not expect all other atheists to feel that way. I'm sure there are lots of homophobic, racist, misogynistic atheists (which is not terribly surprising considering the term has fuckall to do with any of that). Hell, some atheists believe in ghosts and ESP. Atheism isn't even necessarily being rational about the supernatural; it's only one stance on whether or not gods exist. Atheists can believe in woo and all sorts of stuff there is no evidence for.

And, as the OP said, there is just no reason to attach atheism to human rights issues. The only thing atheism is attached to is the question of whether or not you think gods exist. If they want to attach other shit, they should make up another word (and not just a plus sign).

OK, maybe this Atheism plus is dominated by nutters right now (got to look into that closer), I just say it's not a wholly bad idea. Another word would split the forces. Anyway, we don't have to expect that all the other atheists feel that way. What if we just do some activism for human rights and see how many racist homophobic atheists come to oppose us. The point is, we are not supposed to keep silent to prevent somebody from being offended. Nope, first we do something, then they protest, then we stop or resolve the issue.
In the end we'll know who's standing where and we'll upset the status quo. If the racist homophobic atheists feel so strongly about their issues, they can put a party together too, called Atheism Minus. If not, they're free to join or shut up. But not acting just because somebody might disagree, that's leading nowhere.

Majority of American atheists are not natural, they had to fight the delusions and other obstacles to win their atheism. Why the hell shouldn't they do the same about any other delusion there is? Why can't they tackle the delusions of racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, nationalism, consumerism and military service?
There is no god of atheism who would insist on keeping the term pure. Who wants, may look that up in a dictionary. And... I'd really like to see someone who just became an atheist and steps out publically, saying... "Hey, I am an atheist but I disagree where you folks are taking this word. I might not believe in god, but sure I still believe that niggers are inferior, women are inferior, queers are inferior, so stop that right now!"

[amyb]

(20-01-2013 02:11 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Majority of American atheists are not natural, they had to fight the delusions and other obstacles to win their atheism. Why the hell shouldn't they do the same about any other delusion there is? Why can't they tackle the delusions of racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, nationalism, consumerism and military service?

I believe they should fight those things. I just think they're wrong to do it under the name "atheism," which has nothing to do with social justice or human rights.

I absolutely oppose many social injustices named repeatedly in the thread. And I do what I can to help to right those wrongs as much as possible. But I don't pretend my stance on these issues has anything to do with the existence or nonexistence of deities. That's all I'm saying.

[Rahn127]

Here's the thing. The people at atheism plus have this fucked up mind set that seems to say "if you aren't with us, then you're against us and if that's the case, that means that you go against everything we stand for"

Ok, I'm not a fireman, but that doesn't by default make me an arsonist who likes to burn down buildings or set peoples homes on fire.

The people at atheism plus seem more interested in finding fault with those who don't want to join their cause than actually fighting for a cause.

[Misanthropik]

Thumbs-up for excellent analogy

[yumeji]

(20-01-2013 06:39 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Here's the thing. The people at atheism plus have this fucked up mind set that seems to say "if you aren't with us, then you're against us and if that's the case, that means that you go against everything we stand for"

Ok, I'm not a fireman, but that doesn't by default make me an arsonist who likes to burn down buildings or set peoples homes on fire.

The people at atheism plus seem more interested in finding fault with those who don't want to join their cause than actually fighting for a cause.

I've noticed this myself. Atheism+ has become a large embarrassment. But then again I knew it was doomed to failure when PZ ("if you don't agree with me, your a misogynist") Myers put his weight behind it.

Honestly, at this point, Atheism+ is already too far gone into their political correctness and "with me or against me" attitude, to recover. At least in my view.

[Julius]

When I first heard about "Atheism Plus" I checked it out - and was not too impressed. To me, it looks like some kind of movement that's trying to Hijack the growing Atheist/Skeptical Movement with a politically-correct agenda of feminism, racism, social justice.

Woe be to the Skeptical Atheist who actually has an honest disagreement with any of this group's stances - they will skin him/her alive if he/she stays around and lets them. And the "Atheism Plus" people will feel vindicated by this "skinning" for they see themselves as perpetual victims and anyone who may disagree with them as a sexist - racist - homophobe - you-name it.

However, you don't have to take my word for it. You can go to their websites and see for yourself.

Thanks.

[yumeji]

(20-01-2013 08:45 PM)Julius Wrote:  When I first heard about "Atheism Plus" I checked it out - and was not too impressed. To me, it looks like some kind of movement that's trying to Hijack the growing Atheist/Skeptical Movement with a politically-correct agenda of feminism, racism, social justice.

Woe be to the Skeptical Atheist who actually has an honest disagreement with any of this group's stances - they will skin him/her alive if he/she stays around and lets them. And the "Atheism Plus" people will feel vindicated by this "skinning" for they see themselves as perpetual victims and anyone who may disagree with them as a sexist - racist - homophobe - you-name it.

However, you don't have to take my word for it. You can go to their websites and see for yourself.

Thanks.

Well put! If I could give more than 1 like to a post, you would get all of them.

[DLJ]

I just saw this via Philhellenes site.

Pertinent and poignant.





Sorry if it's been posted before.