Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
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03-11-2012, 04:45 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
Atheists make a negative claim. Conspiracy theorists make positive claims.

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03-11-2012, 11:23 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
The generalisation that you put forward can also be used in the conspiracy community itself. You will find many people who call themselves "awakened" and "seeking the truth" who will then quickly dismiss certain subjects.

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Paint upon the wall for the hundredth time.

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03-11-2012, 03:13 PM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
Most so-called "conspiracy theories" are actually "conspiracy hypotheses". That is the reason why most scientific-minded and rational people are skeptical. Not enough evidence has been provided to validate the alleged conspiracy. Atheists tend to be skeptical more often than not. Mystery solved.

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04-11-2012, 05:38 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(02-11-2012 10:22 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  anyone else read the title and go "atheists isn't a conspiracy theory wtf" and then was very disappointed that that's not what the thread was about?
or was that just me?
That's actually exactly what I am saying, but not inferring that as a negative thing.
Think it through :
The Proposition is that a god exists
The Conspiracy is that groups of people have used that concept to gain influence over others
The Theory is that the initial proposition is false
An Atheist adhers to the theory that organised religion is a conspiracy to assert influence over others
Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).

So my original question was that given that an Atheist adhers to at least that one CT, is thinking critically about some of the others incompatible with an atheist view ?

From responses so far the consensus here seems to be yes. I find some incoherence in that.
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04-11-2012, 06:38 AM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2012 08:13 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 05:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  An Atheist adhers to the theory that organised religion is a conspiracy to assert influence over others
Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).
Absolute nonsense. Believing that organized religion is a conspiracy is neither a requirement for being an atheist, nor is it part of atheism. Having said that, I don't share the point of view that (organized) religion is a conspiracy and I can imagine that most people here don't. I've certainly never heard an atheist claim something remotely similar to that.

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04-11-2012, 06:45 AM
Re: RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 05:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  
(02-11-2012 10:22 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  anyone else read the title and go "atheists isn't a conspiracy theory wtf" and then was very disappointed that that's not what the thread was about?
or was that just me?
That's actually exactly what I am saying, but not inferring that as a negative thing.
Think it through :
The Proposition is that a god exists
The Conspiracy is that groups of people have used that concept to gain influence over others
The Theory is that the initial proposition is false
An Atheist adhers to the theory that organised religion is a conspiracy to assert influence over others
Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).

So my original question was that given that an Atheist adhers to at least that one CT, is thinking critically about some of the others incompatible with an atheist view ?

From responses so far the consensus here seems to be yes. I find some incoherence in that.

I fail to see many people not thinking critically here.. And not on this thread.

The point against you is that accepting a claim without sufficient evidence is not thinking critically. That's a trend that can develop with some conspiracy believers.

Over the last year we've had some pop up here like articsage and that's why your being cracked at. Thinking because you are getting hostility that the people here are not thinking critically on some topics is asinine. Don't try to make too,many generalizations.

Generally a conspiracy involved bypassing laws and trying to gain control. Because "atheism" isn't some united force, in not sure it can be a conspiracy. The Catholic Church works in conspiracies.. I wouldn't say Catholicism is a conspiracy.

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04-11-2012, 07:15 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 05:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  
(02-11-2012 10:22 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  anyone else read the title and go "atheists isn't a conspiracy theory wtf" and then was very disappointed that that's not what the thread was about?
or was that just me?
That's actually exactly what I am saying, but not inferring that as a negative thing.
Think it through :
The Proposition is that a god exists
The Conspiracy is that groups of people have used that concept to gain influence over others
The Theory is that the initial proposition is false
An Atheist adhers to the theory that organised religion is a conspiracy to assert influence over others
Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).

So my original question was that given that an Atheist adhers to at least that one CT, is thinking critically about some of the others incompatible with an atheist view ?

From responses so far the consensus here seems to be yes. I find some incoherence in that.

I think it's an interesting enough question to be posed here. You might have got more of a reaction by just sticking to one subject i.e. how much effort does it take to maintain a lie i.e. christianity; or did Paul and the Romans conspire to crush the Jew's dream of a saviour from oppression?

Maybe a bit of an unfortunate choice of topic for your first OP. I think most here are a bit jaded and cynical about CT (Conspiracy Theories not Critical Thinking Smartass ).

Don't let that put you off. I took me months before I was brave enough to post an OP. I can't remember the subject but I don't think I got much response.

Keep on keeping on, dude.

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04-11-2012, 08:22 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 06:38 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 05:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  An Atheist adhers to the theory that organised religion is a conspiracy to assert influence over others
Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).
Absolute nonsense. Believing that organized religion is a cospiracy is neither a requirement for being an atheist, nor is it part of atheism. Having said that, I don't share the point of view that (organized) religion is a conspiracy and I can imagine that most people here don't. I've certainly never heard an atheist claim something remotely similar to that.
Whichever dictionary definition you choose, a conspiracy is a group of people acting in a coordinated fashion (conspiring) to achieve a predefined objective. How can that definition not apply to organised religion if you don't belive in the underlying proposition that god exists ? What do you consider organised religion is ? It's either true (and they can't all be !), in which case as an Atheist I'm wrong, or it's people conspiring to make others believe in an untruth for political / financial / whatever... gain.
Please don't get caught up with the negative connotations attatched to the word "conspiracy".
I never stated that this idea was in any way a part of, or a requirement for, Atheism.
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04-11-2012, 08:39 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 06:45 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 05:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  That's actually exactly what I am saying, but not inferring that as a negative thing.
Think it through :
The Proposition is that a god exists
The Conspiracy is that groups of people have used that concept to gain influence over others
The Theory is that the initial proposition is false
An Atheist adhers to the theory that organised religion is a conspiracy to assert influence over others
Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).

So my original question was that given that an Atheist adhers to at least that one CT, is thinking critically about some of the others incompatible with an atheist view ?

From responses so far the consensus here seems to be yes. I find some incoherence in that.

I fail to see many people not thinking critically here.. And not on this thread.

The point against you is that accepting a claim without sufficient evidence is not thinking critically. That's a trend that can develop with some conspiracy believers.

Over the last year we've had some pop up here like articsage and that's why your being cracked at. Thinking because you are getting hostility that the people here are not thinking critically on some topics is asinine. Don't try to make too,many generalizations.

Generally a conspiracy involved bypassing laws and trying to gain control. Because "atheism" isn't some united force, in not sure it can be a conspiracy. The Catholic Church works in conspiracies.. I wouldn't say Catholicism is a conspiracy.

I don't believe I ever accused anyone directly of not thinking critically. In fact I'm counting on it being the case. That's why I chose to post here rather than on a CT believers forum. I've also clearly said that my interest in CT's is mainly for entertainment purposes, although some of it gets me thinking (critically) further. I don't mind a bit of hostility; although I don't quite understand the reason for it as I've tried to be very careful with my choice of words. I'll take the blame for not expressing my point more adeptly.

I'm certainly not claiming that Atheism is a conspiracy, that would be a bad interpretation of what I actually wrote.
If the founding basis for Catholicism is false, ie. god does not exist, how can the religion be anything other than a conspiracy ?

I don't want to get bogged down in semantics, just trying to clarify what I'm saying as it seems to have confused some, or struck a nerve with others.
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04-11-2012, 08:50 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 08:22 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  Whichever dictionary definition you choose, a conspiracy is a group of people acting in a coordinated fashion (conspiring) to achieve a predefined objective. How can that definition not apply to organised religion if you don't belive in the underlying proposition that god exists ? What do you consider organised religion is ? It's either true (and they can't all be !), in which case as an Atheist I'm wrong, or it's people conspiring to make others believe in an untruth for political / financial / whatever... gain.
1. What predefined objective are you talking about? Before you answer, keep in mind that there are several organized religions (ex. Judaism) whose proponents do not proselytize.
2. I'm fairly confident that the majority of religious folks genuinely believe that their version of the truth is the one and only valid one. Following this, they are not conspiring in order to promote an untruth, because that's not how they see their religion.
3. Where did you get that definition of conspiracy from? It seems to have little to nothing to do with the common usage of the word. To give you an example: Is football a conspiracy because a group of people act in a coordinated fashion to achieve a predefined objective? I hope you can see why that particular definition of the term is too vague to be used in any meaningful way.
4. This is what organized religions are. Plain and simple.

(04-11-2012 08:22 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  Please don't get caught up with the negative connotations attatched to the word "conspiracy".
I never stated that this idea was in any way a part of, or a requirement for, Atheism.
Come again?

(04-11-2012 05:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  An Atheist adhers to the theory that organised religion is a conspiracy to assert influence over others
Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).
Either way, if you didn't actually mean to say that this idea is required or part of atheism with the quote above, it's all good. My bad. Sleepy

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