Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-11-2012, 09:03 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 08:39 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  If the founding basis for Catholicism is false, ie. god does not exist, how can the religion be anything other than a conspiracy ?

If people sincerely, though mistakenly, believe in God then it is not a conspiracy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2012, 09:14 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 08:39 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  I'm certainly not claiming that Atheism is a conspiracy, that would be a bad interpretation of what I actually wrote.
(04-11-2012 05:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).
You crack me up. Laughat

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2012, 10:06 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 09:14 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 08:39 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  I'm certainly not claiming that Atheism is a conspiracy, that would be a bad interpretation of what I actually wrote.
(04-11-2012 05:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).
You crack me up. Laughat

You do understand that a conspiracy, and a conspiracy theory are two different things ?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2012, 10:13 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 10:06 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  You do understand that a conspiracy, and a conspiracy theory are two different things ?
Apparently, I don't. What's the fundamental difference again?

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2012, 10:38 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 08:50 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 08:22 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  Whichever dictionary definition you choose, a conspiracy is a group of people acting in a coordinated fashion (conspiring) to achieve a predefined objective. How can that definition not apply to organised religion if you don't belive in the underlying proposition that god exists ? What do you consider organised religion is ? It's either true (and they can't all be !), in which case as an Atheist I'm wrong, or it's people conspiring to make others believe in an untruth for political / financial / whatever... gain.
1. What predefined objective are you talking about? Before you answer, keep in mind that there are several organized religions (ex. Judaism) whose proponents do not proselytize.
2. I'm fairly confident that the majority of religious folks genuinely believe that their version of the truth is the one and only valid one. Following this, they are not conspiring in order to promote an untruth, because that's not how they see their religion.
3. Where did you get that definition of conspiracy from? It seems to have little to nothing to do with the common usage of the word. To give you an example: Is football a conspiracy because a group of people act in a coordinated fashion to achieve a predefined objective? I hope you can see why that particular definition of the term is too vague to be used in any meaningful way.
4. This is what organized religions are. Plain and simple.

(04-11-2012 08:22 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  Please don't get caught up with the negative connotations attatched to the word "conspiracy".
I never stated that this idea was in any way a part of, or a requirement for, Atheism.
Come again?

(04-11-2012 05:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  An Atheist adhers to the theory that organised religion is a conspiracy to assert influence over others
Atheism is therefore a conspiracy theory (and in my opinion a good and noble one).
Either way, if you didn't actually mean to say that this idea is required or part of atheism with the quote above, it's all good. My bad. Sleepy


1) The objective of keeping the mass of the population in a controlled state in order to exercise power over them.
2) I agree. I make a distinction between followers of religion, and religous leaders. That said, even the religious leaders most likely genuinely believe what they are saying. It's all just been going on for so long that the origins get lost...
3) OK, I concede that wasn't a good definition. I'll take the one given in your link :
"The act of two or more persons, called conspirators, working secretly to obtain some goal, usually understood with negative connotations." [see point 1]
4) Again, I accept your definition. My question was more, what is it's purpose ? [see point 1]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2012, 10:43 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 10:13 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 10:06 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  You do understand that a conspiracy, and a conspiracy theory are two different things ?
Apparently, I don't. What's the fundamental difference again?

One is a group of people conspiring together, the other is denouncing the fact that others are conspiring.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2012, 11:01 AM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2012 11:22 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 10:38 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  1) The objective of keeping the mass of the population in a controlled state in order to exercise power over them.
2) I agree. I make a distinction between followers of religion, and religous leaders. That said, even the religious leaders most likely genuinely believe what they are saying. It's all just been going on for so long that the origins get lost...
3) OK, I concede that wasn't a good definition. I'll take the one given in your link :
"The act of two or more persons, called conspirators, working secretly to obtain some goal, usually understood with negative connotations." [see point 1]
4) Again, I accept your definition. My question was more, what is it's purpose ? [see point 1]
Religion has many different purposes. Keeping a big part of a population in a controlled state can be one of them (ex. Catholic Church), but it most definitely doesn't have to be the case (ex. Buddhism).

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2012, 11:08 AM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 10:43 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 10:13 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Apparently, I don't. What's the fundamental difference again?

One is a group of people conspiring together, the other is denouncing the fact that others are conspiring.
No, one is a group of people, the other is the hypothesis that there is a group of people.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 11:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 10:43 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  One is a group of people conspiring together, the other is denouncing the fact that others are conspiring.
No, one is a group of people, the other is the hypothesis that there is a group of people.
OK, I'll go along with that as well. The word "hypothesis" is probably better than the word "fact" in this instance. Thank you Chas.
Still two different things though, so no contradiction in what I wrote !
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2012, 12:12 PM
Re: RE: Atheism : a Conspiracy Theory ?
(04-11-2012 08:39 AM)Idlecuriosity Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 06:45 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I fail to see many people not thinking critically here.. And not on this thread.

The point against you is that accepting a claim without sufficient evidence is not thinking critically. That's a trend that can develop with some conspiracy believers.

Over the last year we've had some pop up here like articsage and that's why your being cracked at. Thinking because you are getting hostility that the people here are not thinking critically on some topics is asinine. Don't try to make too,many generalizations.

Generally a conspiracy involved bypassing laws and trying to gain control. Because "atheism" isn't some united force, in not sure it can be a conspiracy. The Catholic Church works in conspiracies.. I wouldn't say Catholicism is a conspiracy.

I don't believe I ever accused anyone directly of not thinking critically. In fact I'm counting on it being the case. That's why I chose to post here rather than on a CT believers forum. I've also clearly said that my interest in CT's is mainly for entertainment purposes, although some of it gets me thinking (critically) further. I don't mind a bit of hostility; although I don't quite understand the reason for it as I've tried to be very careful with my choice of words. I'll take the blame for not expressing my point more adeptly.

I'm certainly not claiming that Atheism is a conspiracy, that would be a bad interpretation of what I actually wrote.
If the founding basis for Catholicism is false, ie. god does not exist, how can the religion be anything other than a conspiracy ?

I don't want to get bogged down in semantics, just trying to clarify what I'm saying as it seems to have confused some, or struck a nerve with others.

Well maybe it could be understood if you explain why you think there are people here who are opposed to thinking critically on conspiracy like subjects?

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Conspiracy theories that have come true. Metazoa Zeke 20 404 30-06-2014 12:58 PM
Last Post: dancefortwo
  Church conspiracy theories. BlackMason 4 150 04-05-2014 11:44 AM
Last Post: BlackMason
  What the hell is wrong with Bill Maher? (Germ Theory Denialism) Paleo 30 5,634 28-04-2014 02:35 PM
Last Post: Minimalist
  MH 370 Conspiracy Theories Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver 9 584 24-04-2014 11:26 PM
Last Post: Drunkin Druid
  Found a bat shit crazy conspiracy theory website ... TheLogicalAthiest 6 251 24-03-2014 04:38 PM
Last Post: Chas
  What's the craziest conspiracy theory you can come up with? Tartarus Sauce 85 2,680 17-03-2014 10:28 AM
Last Post: Just Another Atheist
  Conspiracy Theory With Jesse Ventura Punk Pumpkin 18 496 09-03-2014 09:36 AM
Last Post: Revenant77x
Forum Jump: