Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
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27-11-2015, 04:52 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 04:37 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 04:18 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  So egalitarians can't focus on womens issues alone? It can. If and egalitarian sees a problem women are facing they can help. Also to add i don't think the idea Femenism is defined by is pointless, but the label is. And yes i am talking about modern Femenism

Your statement implied that feminism was pointless because egalitarianism encompassed a broader scope of involvement. Of course egalitarians can lend a helping hand to specific causes, your message was merely misleading and I was responding to what I thought you were implying. I agree though, feminism as a label has become dead weight. It's a problem when the descriptive label is more likely to invite inaccurate assumptions rather than clarity. If these ills are the result of external forces, that allows a group to unify in their message to dispel the misconceptions, but the confusion over feminism is entirely nestled within internal division, and the varying factions of feminism are doing a pitiful job consolidating the field into something manageable.

There is no difference of the labels other than one having a historical precedent and the other being the most accurately fitting label via Latin descriptions of the desired goals.

To some ideas linger above in posts, it's just as if black rights activists of the 60s or again today aren't in anyway opposed to other people. Nobody really bickers at all historically over the concept of black activism of the 60s of civil rights as something limited to just that group, even though it wasn't. It's not even merely seen that way today because it's an encompassing concept that is about total discrimination or minority but just has a label still held up to the historically & still currently existing discriminatory group.

Afterall, hopefully atheism is a nonsense label that nobody gives shits about. Then they'll be people bickering how Humanistic or Naturalist of whatever the hell is better and it's pointless to say atheism as only 20% of the population believes in deities. It may still have purpose until it really does dwindle to a negligible point.

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27-11-2015, 05:09 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 04:37 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 04:18 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  So egalitarians can't focus on womens issues alone? It can. If and egalitarian sees a problem women are facing they can help. Also to add i don't think the idea Femenism is defined by is pointless, but the label is. And yes i am talking about modern Femenism

Your statement implied that feminism was pointless because egalitarianism encompassed a broader scope of involvement. Of course egalitarians can lend a helping hand to specific causes, your message was merely misleading and I was responding to what I thought you were implying. I agree though, feminism as a label has become dead weight. It's a problem when the descriptive label is more likely to invite inaccurate assumptions rather than clarity. If these ills are the result of external forces, that allows a group to unify in their message to dispel the misconceptions, but the confusion over feminism is entirely nestled within internal division, and the varying factions of feminism are doing a pitiful job consolidating the field into something manageable.

There is a reason feminism can't agree today is the same reason christianity and islam don't agree, because of who labels them selves as such things. Every human wants to be part of a group of some sort, they also have an agenda. For femenist today, many want things to go their way, weather it be changing how people make video game characters or how humans work(evolutionary Psychology is usually what they hate) and some who actually want to help(i.e christina sommers, who ironically is called a misogonist by femenist ).

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27-11-2015, 05:11 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 04:16 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 04:05 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I'm not sure about feminism being a cult. How exactly is it a cult?

It is a cult because of its bs. First it is racist and sexist by saying white men are the problem, they also try censorship when they don't like something.OMG THAT VIDEO GAME CHARACTER HAS BIG BOOBS CHANGE IT!!!!! Third is it trying to absorb all other movements and claim it as femenism, from racial rights to gay rights. Last it is based on hypocrisy. They will see a scantly clad character and complain, while also complaining they can't be scantaly clad. Now what is the cult part? Well like all cults it causes damage but claims to do good. Like:

Christianity=love

Islam=peace

Femenism=equality

There is a lot of problems with modern Femenism, just would take to long to type on my kindle.

Yeah, see, you're simplifying things. I'll agree that Christianity and Islam are problematic at their base for being religions in the first place. But even they can't be defined in simplest terms like that.

Christianity=love (In what way? What are the methods? There are how many denominations? Some believe God's love makes the need for belief to be pointless, while others think belief is needed, while others still think love AND works AND belief are all needed. It's all bullshit, I know)

Islam = peace (same as above)

Feminism = equality (Again, in what way? Is it possible that there are different denominations of feminism? There are feminists who believe sexual images objectify women, while other feminists think women should embrace sexual exhibition. Feminists against porn, feminists for porn.)

There are feminists who have criticized Anita Sarkeesian's "women in video games" series.

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27-11-2015, 05:12 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 05:09 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 04:37 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Your statement implied that feminism was pointless because egalitarianism encompassed a broader scope of involvement. Of course egalitarians can lend a helping hand to specific causes, your message was merely misleading and I was responding to what I thought you were implying. I agree though, feminism as a label has become dead weight. It's a problem when the descriptive label is more likely to invite inaccurate assumptions rather than clarity. If these ills are the result of external forces, that allows a group to unify in their message to dispel the misconceptions, but the confusion over feminism is entirely nestled within internal division, and the varying factions of feminism are doing a pitiful job consolidating the field into something manageable.

There is a reason feminism can't agree today is the same reason christianity and islam don't agree, because of who labels them selves as such things. Every human wants to be part of a group of some sort, they also have an agenda. For femenist today, many want things to go their way, weather it be changing how people make video game characters or how humans work(evolutionary Psychology is usually what they hate) and some who actually want to help(i.e christina sommers, who ironically is called a misogonist by femenist ).

Same reason atheists and Chicago bears fans and republicans all don't agree with eachother... you get any group of people together and it's disagreement between them no matter what it was.

Those video game series are just a literary paper work. Every literary paper is gonna have flaws as well. I don't have a problem with those video game videos but people who act like it's saying it's the end all be all way you can evaluate the video games make no sense to me. It's like they never learnt what a english paper is, which is basically what the video is. I think perhaps there was too much of a science video community judging it as if it was a scientific breakdown.

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27-11-2015, 05:15 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 05:11 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 04:16 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  It is a cult because of its bs. First it is racist and sexist by saying white men are the problem, they also try censorship when they don't like something.OMG THAT VIDEO GAME CHARACTER HAS BIG BOOBS CHANGE IT!!!!! Third is it trying to absorb all other movements and claim it as femenism, from racial rights to gay rights. Last it is based on hypocrisy. They will see a scantly clad character and complain, while also complaining they can't be scantaly clad. Now what is the cult part? Well like all cults it causes damage but claims to do good. Like:

Christianity=love

Islam=peace

Femenism=equality

There is a lot of problems with modern Femenism, just would take to long to type on my kindle.

Yeah, see, you're simplifying things. I'll agree that Christianity and Islam are problematic at their base for being religions in the first place. But even they can't be defined in simplest terms like that.

Christianity=love (In what way? What are the methods? There are how many denominations? Some believe God's love makes the need for belief to be pointless, while others think belief is needed, while others still think love AND works AND belief are all needed. It's all bullshit, I know)

Islam = peace (same as above)

Feminism = equality (Again, in what way? Is it possible that there are different denominations of feminism? There are feminists who believe sexual images objectify women, while other feminists think women should embrace sexual exhibition. Feminists against porn, feminists for porn.)

There are feminists who have criticized Anita Sarkeesian's "women in video games" series.

No i don't think that, but i said that as many people in those movments think that. Most christians do think christianity is love, many muslims do think islam will lead to peace, and many femenist do think feminism is equality.

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27-11-2015, 05:17 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 05:12 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 05:09 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  There is a reason feminism can't agree today is the same reason christianity and islam don't agree, because of who labels them selves as such things. Every human wants to be part of a group of some sort, they also have an agenda. For femenist today, many want things to go their way, weather it be changing how people make video game characters or how humans work(evolutionary Psychology is usually what they hate) and some who actually want to help(i.e christina sommers, who ironically is called a misogonist by femenist ).

Same reason atheists and Chicago bears fans and republicans all don't agree with eachother... you get any group of people together and it's disagreement between them no matter what it was.

Those video game series are just a literary paper work. Every literary paper is gonna have flaws as well. I don't have a problem with those video game videos but people who act like it's saying it's the end all be all way you can evaluate the video games make no sense to me. It's like they never learnt what a english paper is, which is basically what the video is. I think perhaps there was too much of a science video community judging it as if it was a scientific breakdown.

What do you mean literary paper work?

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27-11-2015, 05:27 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 05:15 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 05:11 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  Yeah, see, you're simplifying things. I'll agree that Christianity and Islam are problematic at their base for being religions in the first place. But even they can't be defined in simplest terms like that.

Christianity=love (In what way? What are the methods? There are how many denominations? Some believe God's love makes the need for belief to be pointless, while others think belief is needed, while others still think love AND works AND belief are all needed. It's all bullshit, I know)

Islam = peace (same as above)

Feminism = equality (Again, in what way? Is it possible that there are different denominations of feminism? There are feminists who believe sexual images objectify women, while other feminists think women should embrace sexual exhibition. Feminists against porn, feminists for porn.)

There are feminists who have criticized Anita Sarkeesian's "women in video games" series.

No i don't think that, but i said that as many people in those movments think that. Most christians do think christianity is love, many muslims do think islam will lead to peace, and many femenist do think feminism is equality.

Yeah, but here's the difference. We can argue with the Muslim who says they're about peace and the Christian who says they're about love, because their "sacred texts" provide a real problem for those claims. There is no established "sacred text" for feminism. So when a feminist says, "I'm about equality", you then have to look at their actual views and figure out whether they are for equality or something completely different. Much like atheism, much like science, a feminist can challenge the views of other feminists, even the "pioneers" of said movement.

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27-11-2015, 05:28 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 05:17 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 05:12 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Same reason atheists and Chicago bears fans and republicans all don't agree with eachother... you get any group of people together and it's disagreement between them no matter what it was.

Those video game series are just a literary paper work. Every literary paper is gonna have flaws as well. I don't have a problem with those video game videos but people who act like it's saying it's the end all be all way you can evaluate the video games make no sense to me. It's like they never learnt what a english paper is, which is basically what the video is. I think perhaps there was too much of a science video community judging it as if it was a scientific breakdown.

What do you mean literary paper work?

It'a a literary analysis. You take a perspective of the schools of criticism or a slant of your interest, be it new historicalism, marxism, feminism, Conservationism, Post-modernism, etc. And you read the text via that outlook and see to take out what

It's one of the main types of highschool-college type English class assignments undertaken by people. You goal is biased, yes, it's not ashamed or a negative element to be so. That's the point of the process, you're at no point saying in the concept, This is the only or the "right" way to analysis this media product.

I just don't get peoples reactions because they so often were saying, oh you could view it from X other angle... yes, that's not something anyone ever said isn't the case. People seem to treat it when they don't like it as if it was some absolutist scientific claim.

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27-11-2015, 05:36 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 05:27 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 05:15 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  No i don't think that, but i said that as many people in those movments think that. Most christians do think christianity is love, many muslims do think islam will lead to peace, and many femenist do think feminism is equality.

Yeah, but here's the difference. We can argue with the Muslim who says they're about peace and the Christian who says they're about love, because their "sacred texts" provide a real problem for those claims. There is no established "sacred text" for feminism. So when a feminist says, "I'm about equality", you then have to look at their actual views and figure out whether they are for equality or something completely different. Much like atheism, much like science, a feminist can challenge the views of other feminists, even the "pioneers" of said movement.

Problem, there are many text and factions for christianity and islam. Also interpretation is a thing, and will claim out of context. Also there are many holy books in it alone. So you do have to look at the views of them to see weather it is true or not on their claims. And like feminism(or the modern of it), christianity, and islam, based on their actions don't fit what they claim to be.

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27-11-2015, 05:41 PM
RE: Atheism and Feminism (debates)?
(27-11-2015 05:28 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(27-11-2015 05:17 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  What do you mean literary paper work?

It'a a literary analysis. You take a perspective of the schools of criticism or a slant of your interest, be it new historicalism, marxism, feminism, Conservationism, Post-modernism, etc. And you read the text via that outlook and see to take out what

It's one of the main types of highschool-college type English class assignments undertaken by people. You goal is biased, yes, it's not ashamed or a negative element to be so. That's the point of the process, you're at no point saying in the concept, This is the only or the "right" way to analysis this media product.

I just don't get peoples reactions because they so often were saying, oh you could view it from X other angle... yes, that's not something anyone ever said isn't the case. People seem to treat it when they don't like it as if it was some absolutist scientific claim.

So what are you saying that I am taking something else out of what they want to mean?

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