Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
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03-03-2017, 06:35 PM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Also, why be good if no good?

In my experience, atheists are generally more honest than theists, and I think honest people are more moral.
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03-03-2017, 06:40 PM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 06:35 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  In my experience, atheists are generally more honest than theists, and I think honest people are more moral.

There hasn't been a very good study of this controlling for other variables, but prison statistics suggests that, per capita, theists have far, far higher incarceration rates than atheists.

Maybe there's something about thinking that we're responsible for figuring out what is or isn't good on our own (or collectively as a society or species) rather than thinking the answers can be found in iron-age dogmas that makes us BETTER at it.
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03-03-2017, 06:40 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2017 06:46 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Jehovah is not merely another god like Zeus, Ra or Quexacotal. He demands things from people,

I'm pretty sure Ra and Qeuxycontin demanded virgins be thrown into a volcano if you want to eat this year. In terms of the demands placed on the people, your God seems quite the pussy.

(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  And Nihilism is the idea that there is no ultimate goodness, no ultimate truth. Without God the ultimate good, it seems difficult for me to comprehend why we would not be nihilistic given all the evil in the world.

Oh, it's not so bad. You get used to it. Don't be such a whiny bitch.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-03-2017, 06:43 PM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Hello all. I was curious, is there any correlation between atheism and nihilism or hedonism?

Hedonism is of course the philosophy that pleasure of any kind is the ultimate end game, and Nihilism is that nothing and no one has any ultimate meaning or purpose.

Admittedly I have spent time as an atheist and have found it hard to avoid falling into either temptation.

As human beings we want things. Whether those things be sex, drugs, money or food. We are intrinsically selfish, in that we often feel inclined to place ourselves above all others. I am guilty of this myself.

Jehovah is not merely another god like Zeus, Ra or Quexacotal. He demands things from people, wishes us to live to a certain moral standard.

Without the realization that one day my life will end and I will indeed face judgement and then heaven,purgatory or hell, I may indeed take on the philosophy of "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow I may die."

And Nihilism is the idea that there is no ultimate goodness, no ultimate truth. Without God the ultimate good, it seems difficult for me to comprehend why we would not be nihilistic given all the evil in the world.

Also, why be good if no good? I don't mean why don't murder people or why not steal, I suppose everyone knows those are wrong and destructive.

Why not take on the extra burden, to help someone in need, or to go the extra mile inadvancing the good and dignity of all people. It's not easy to do, and I do believe in concupiscence, the natural inclination to be self-absorbed, and put ones own needs above anyone elses no matter what.

Their is a certain freedom in helping and being kind to others, and knowing I am pleasing the creator of all the world(including all the posters here...you were willed and created by God, and loved as well) is all the more motivation for me.

Because we are adults, Harold. We don't (unlike you), need a sucker to go to the dentist, Harold. Many of the world's most generous philanthropists are non-believers, Harold. Grow up. There is no connection, Harold. Just go away Harold with your childish foolishness, Harold.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-03-2017, 07:06 PM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:33 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Btw, rape and murder aren't usually in peoples best interests.

Yet it is for your mythical god. Your god murders 250 million people in a flood because he can't perform the basic, simple act of forgiveness without going on a genocidal rampage. Plus he condones rape and incest in your old Bronze Age book and if you believe in that stupid book then you condone it too.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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03-03-2017, 07:13 PM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
Well, in the hopes that you're actually asking out of curiosity and not because you're trying to preach (which at this point is wishful thinking, I'd imagine)...

I'd like to ask you a question. Why is it so bad to be selfish? I mean who is better to live for than yourself? Who better a reason to be happy, experience things, and make mistakes in the hopes of learning than yourself? Hedonism (or at least the concept of it that I think you're referring to) is not inherently bad. If anything, in your position, I'd find it liberating.

Now to your question of "why not do bad things". I think that's as pointless as "why should we do good things." I don't think there's an objective good in the world whatsoever. I, for one, feel inclined not to do what I (subjectively) think is wrong because I have empathy. I wouldn't like to be raped, murdered, or hurt gravely, so why should I inflict it on others? I feel the need not to do "bad" things because I don't want to do what I think could hurt others, not because of an objective moral code written somewhere in the universe.


Also, there is no correlation between hedonism and nihilism... outside of the fact that most who call themselves "nihilists" usually don't live on guidelines that other things give them.
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03-03-2017, 07:15 PM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Hello all. I was curious, is there any correlation between atheism and nihilism or hedonism?

Hedonism is of course the philosophy that pleasure of any kind is the ultimate end game, and Nihilism is that nothing and no one has any ultimate meaning or purpose.

Admittedly I have spent time as an atheist and have found it hard to avoid falling into either temptation.

As human beings we want things. Whether those things be sex, drugs, money or food. We are intrinsically selfish, in that we often feel inclined to place ourselves above all others. I am guilty of this myself.

Jehovah is not merely another god like Zeus, Ra or Quexacotal. He demands things from people, wishes us to live to a certain moral standard.

Without the realization that one day my life will end and I will indeed face judgement and then heaven,purgatory or hell, I may indeed take on the philosophy of "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow I may die."

And Nihilism is the idea that there is no ultimate goodness, no ultimate truth. Without God the ultimate good, it seems difficult for me to comprehend why we would not be nihilistic given all the evil in the world.

Also, why be good if no good? I don't mean why don't murder people or why not steal, I suppose everyone knows those are wrong and destructive.

Why not take on the extra burden, to help someone in need, or to go the extra mile inadvancing the good and dignity of all people. It's not easy to do, and I do believe in concupiscence, the natural inclination to be self-absorbed, and put ones own needs above anyone elses no matter what.

Their is a certain freedom in helping and being kind to others, and knowing I am pleasing the creator of all the world(including all the posters here...you were willed and created by God, and loved as well) is all the more motivation for me.

All the evil in the world? The world is neither good nor evil. It just is.

Why be good? Because I benefit from it.

Why not be gluttonous? Because I value my health.

Atheism is simply a position. It does mean that a philosophy has to be constructed, that the one presented by theism is gone.

Why do I not do whatever I want? Why do I help? Because I am human and I want to live in a stable society. Such a society requires people cooperate.

Is it better for a society that the poor be helped or that they be left to starve? Is it better for society if people stop to help a stranger in need or to pass by? And what type of society do I want to live in?

I am selfish. But I am rationally selfish. I take on extra burdens because I see ultimate benefit from it. I do nothing unless I see some rational benefit to myself. I give food to the needy because a society where people are fed is less likely to breed desperation and aggression. I give money to give health care to the poor because a society where there is less sickness is richer and more productive.

I am an individual. I do find fault when theists claim they can find no motivation for good unless it comes from pleasing their god. To be blunt, I think they are cowards.

I live for myself. I need no god, no external motor. I am my own motor. And my happiness is my goal. I need no other to motivate me for goodness.

If you call this hedonism then so be it. If you call it wrong then I will disagree. If you call it evil I will tell you your priorities are twisted.
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03-03-2017, 11:17 PM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Hello all. I was curious, is there any correlation between atheism and nihilism or hedonism?

Hedonism is of course the philosophy that pleasure of any kind is the ultimate end game, and Nihilism is that nothing and no one has any ultimate meaning or purpose.

Admittedly I have spent time as an atheist and have found it hard to avoid falling into either temptation.

As human beings we want things. Whether those things be sex, drugs, money or food. We are intrinsically selfish, in that we often feel inclined to place ourselves above all others. I am guilty of this myself.

Jehovah is not merely another god like Zeus, Ra or Quexacotal. He demands things from people, wishes us to live to a certain moral standard.

Without the realization that one day my life will end and I will indeed face judgement and then heaven,purgatory or hell, I may indeed take on the philosophy of "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow I may die."

And Nihilism is the idea that there is no ultimate goodness, no ultimate truth. Without God the ultimate good, it seems difficult for me to comprehend why we would not be nihilistic given all the evil in the world.

Also, why be good if no good? I don't mean why don't murder people or why not steal, I suppose everyone knows those are wrong and destructive.

Why not take on the extra burden, to help someone in need, or to go the extra mile inadvancing the good and dignity of all people. It's not easy to do, and I do believe in concupiscence, the natural inclination to be self-absorbed, and put ones own needs above anyone elses no matter what.

Their is a certain freedom in helping and being kind to others, and knowing I am pleasing the creator of all the world(including all the posters here...you were willed and created by God, and loved as well) is all the more motivation for me.

Not that I can see. Atheism is an individuals lack of god belief. Nothing more.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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03-03-2017, 11:34 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2017 11:39 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Jehovah is not merely another god like Zeus, Ra or Quexacotal. He demands things from people,

Actually the origins of Yahweh proves he IS just another god. The Jews got him from the Babylonian pantheon. He was a son of El Elyon and the god of the armies. His wife was Ashera. The Hebrews were polytheists for centuries. They picked him so he would help them in battles. Jehovah was originally a Moabite mountain deity, (and Egyptian volcano deity which got conflated) and not the same god as Yahweh.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-03-2017, 12:05 AM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 11:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Jehovah is not merely another god like Zeus, Ra or Quexacotal. He demands things from people,

Actually the origins of Yahweh proves he IS just another god. The Jews got him from the Babylonian pantheon. He was a son of El Elyon and the god of the armies. His wife was Ashera. The Hebrews were polytheists for centuries. They picked him so he would help them in battles. Jehovah was originally a Moabite mountain deity, (and Egyptian volcano deity which got conflated) and not the same god as Yahweh.


Yahweh Sabaoth, the Lord of Hosts [god of the armies], with jurisdiction over the lands of Judea. He was a region specific war deity, part of a much larger pantheon, and ultimately borrowed from other much older cultures who had originally imagined him.









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