Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
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04-03-2017, 02:34 AM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Without the realization that one day my life will end and I will indeed face judgement and then heaven,purgatory or hell, I may indeed take on the philosophy of "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow I may die."

It never ceases to amaze me how theists fail to see how easily this question can be turned around and used against their own theology. If all I have to do to earn an eternity of bliss in Heaven is accept Jesus as my savior sometime before I die, why bother being good beyond that? I could lead the most debauched, self-centered life possible, and at most, all I'd have to do is renew my vow of accepting Jesus after every crime I commit, and I can rest assured that I'll be going upstairs instead of downstairs when I finally die. The only justice I'd have to fear is the finite justice of man. If I managed to evade earthly law all my life, then I'd get away with every single transgression with essential impunity. So, even under a Christian worldview, the finite justice of man is the only thing we can really count on to motivate good behavior, if indeed such extrinsic motivation is as universally necessary as you seem to think.

As I've said before, Christian salvation is not an incentive to act virtuously, but rather a license to act viciously.

Why not selfishly pursue my own pleasures with no regard for how it affects other people? Three main reasons. First and foremost, it diminishes the well-being of sentient creatures, the fostering of which is how I would define "good." Second, it is not in my best interests to be a jerk to everyone around me, because no man is an island, and I will inevitably need to depend on some of those other people at various points in my life. To alienate people who would otherwise support and help me is to shoot myself in the foot. Third, I would not want to live in a society where everyone was a jerk to each other.

Also, let's talk about subjectivity versus objectivity. Once we establish that the goal and/or effect of anything "good" is to promote the well-being of sentient creatures (or at least to prevent the unnecessary suffering thereof), there are very objective things that we can determine about how to accomplish that. If I rape and torture someone, it is not a mere personal opinion that such actions create unnecessary suffering. It is a verifiable fact.

If, on the other hand, we attach our moral sensibilities to the whims of some deity, there is no comparably objective way to investigate and determine what this god's moral code actually says. The rampant disagreement among theists over exactly what the Abrahamic god expects of us mortals testifies overwhelmingly to this. Divine morality is therefore more subjective than secular morality.


"If you want your life to mean something, try making someone else's life meaningful." - Aron Ra

The only sacred truth in science is that there are no sacred truths. – Carl Sagan
Sōla vēritās sancta in philosophiā nātūrālī est absentia vēritātum sanctārum.
Ἡ μόνη ἱερᾱ̀ ἀληθείᾱ ἐν φυσικῇ φιλοσοφίᾳ ἐστίν ἡ ἱερῶν ἀληθειῶν σπάνις.
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04-03-2017, 02:41 AM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
England is now predominantly inhabited by the non-religious. I invite anyone who thinks it takes magic fairy dust for people to not be raging arse holes to come and visit.

Sure, we have arse holes. Plenty of them. But no more than any religious place. We also have just normal people walking around, going about their business. Being kind to each other for no other reason than it's a nice thing to do.

There's evolutionary reasons we care about each other, it's just you have to take some time to learn and understand. Religion often just says "that's too complicated so it's magic". It makes me sad that it can make people really believe they are psychopaths, reigned in only by intangible threats. It's bullshit. Most of the people who believe that will be in for a big surprise if they ever find their way out of religion.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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04-03-2017, 03:05 AM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Hello all. I was curious, is there any correlation between atheism and nihilism or hedonism?

Of course not. Your purported "corellation" is nothing more than another desperate attempt by a religious zealot to further denigrate the atheist. If you wanna talk about hedonism, then have a look at the obscene wealth the Vatican holds—whilst beggars at the foot of its walls are breaking their babies' bones in order to permanently deform them—so as to attract money from passers by.

Revelation 18:16—"And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls."

The Catholic church holds billions of dollars worth of stocks, gold bullion, properties and cash. It's the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence, and is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole planet.

[Image: pope.jpg]

Quote:Why not take on the extra burden, to help someone in need, or to go the extra mile in advancing the good and dignity of all people. It's not easy to do, and I do believe in concupiscence [...]

You mean the sort of concupiscence as practiced by the estimated 2,000 Roman Catholic paedophile priests here in Australia?

Quote:Their is a certain freedom in helping and being kind to others, and knowing I am pleasing the creator of all the world (including all the posters here... you were willed and created by God, and loved as well) is all the more motivation for me.

So what you're saying in effect is that if there were no god to be pleased, then you wouldn't be helpful and kind to others? That you'd have no innate desire to look after your fellow man—other than for self-gratification? That's pretty disgusting in my book.

Incidentally, I most definitely wasn't "created" by your mythical god FFS. Me dear old mum 'n' dad did the deed on that fateful night LOL. And I have no idea what you're attempting to say here; that I was "willed" into existence by some supernatural entity? Tell that to me dad and see what happens!

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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04-03-2017, 03:10 AM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
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04-03-2017, 03:33 AM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 06:35 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  In my experience, atheists are generally more honest than theists, and I think honest people are more moral.

Backed up by official July, 2013 data from the US Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Prisons obtained under the FOI Act 1966 (Freedom of Information):

Of the prisoners willing to give their religious affiliations, atheists make up 0.07% of the prison population. Yes, that's zero point zero fucking seven.

(Not even the 0.2% we’ve been using for so long.)

Protestants make up 28.7% of the prison population; Catholics, 24%; Muslims, 5.5%.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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04-03-2017, 03:40 AM
RE: Atheism and Nihilism/Hedonism.
(03-03-2017 05:09 PM)ProudCatholic Wrote:  Hello all. I was curious.....

Enter very high gay man. Bent as a dog's hind leg bent.

"Oh it's you again Darling.Smile

You can't imagine my joy.

And between us, we know Joy, right.

That tongue of yours.

darling it'll get you into trouble. Word'll get out. And you know I want you all to myself.

Munchkin. Wink

Actually it's HUGE!

Darling. Drooling

Shall we find a place more comfortable than the rectory?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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