Atheism and Satanism
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20-11-2012, 06:54 PM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 04:44 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 02:24 PM)Pr0fanus Wrote:  


Witch: a person, now especially a woman, who professes or is supposed to practice magic, especially black magic or the black art;sorceress.
Compare warlock.


So what's your point with the Wiccan stuff?
He had previously made a statement that dictionaries lack proper terminology regarding the word. I thought he meant the description of a Wiccan priest(ess). It does not matter, as the same exact dictionary citations describe non-Wiccan witches accurately as well.

Which type of dictionary are you citing? Prescriptive or descriptive?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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21-11-2012, 12:05 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 02:34 PM)Pr0fanus Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 02:15 PM)Irishdize Wrote:  well, If she were here I would let her speak for herself but from what I know of her, she is not a sadist, she loves money, she feels that she needs money (well she does, we all do, lol) but I mean she doesnt care about sex or power or accomplishment as much as she does money and she feels that people need reassurance, they need to know that things will work out right and thats why they go to psychics and so she just gives them what they need-while getting what she needs and all the while realizing that she-in fact no one-is a real psychic, thats my take-now she might come here some day and tell me I am completely wrong and thats ok, i could be.
she doesnt strike me as a sadist which is something (right?) who gets pleasure out of hurting people? she knows she is a con woman but she does feel bad sometimes when a client says things to her like-I spent my whole life savings on you or what not and yet she still continues her work. fine line maybe?
would a sadist not be a welcome member in Satanism? I cant deny that when I have pulled one over on people that sometimes I get a thrill that I have done so, like, wow, I am good, I wasnt sure I could pull that one off or-an internal need to scream-sucker! I admit that I feel good at some of my cons so to speak so in a sense that is sadistic, though I would never engage in a con that hurt someone physically or harmed an animal or child or broke the law, my Job which is not illegal is about selling products that do not work-They arent illegal products, they just dont work. Like many products dont work or dont work as they are supposed to work...working as a psychic is also not illegal, i guess I feel that if a person is stupid enough to fall for the bullshit that either of us are selling, they deserve what they get.
am I wrong?
Evil_monster
Yeah, that sounds fine to me, really. Of course, the 5. statement holds true with other Satanists as well, so if you're "smiting" someone doing your job, expect to be smashed. That's the nature of the game.


No true Satanist would ever fall for my products because Satanists do not believe in the supernatural and my products are geared towards such attitudes. However, if I encountered someone in my store who said they were a Satanist and they provided enough information for me to determine that they were indeed, I would inform them that I was also a Satanist and that the products in the store do not work.
I believe that is showing respect for those that deserve respect.
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21-11-2012, 11:37 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 12:54 PM)Irishdize Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 12:15 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Pr0fanis and Irishdize,

Thank you for those clarifications.

Some of what you describe sounds like new age beliefs. And I don't deny some of that - particularly meditation - can have real physical and psychological benefits. Other parts of new age thinking I want no part of - astrology and psychics, for example.

But back to something Irishdize has said, how is "manipulating people for your own needs" not evil?

Also, you have explained "Satan", but you have also used the term "Lucifer". Are these the same to you?


Im not sure what you think are new age beliefs.
Satanists do not believe in Psychics, astrology or any new age nonsense.
Rituals arent really new age. Ritual can be something as simple as lighting a candle and reading a book or spirit dancing or meditation, its all up to the individual and I personally have incooperated several practices from different traditions into my practice but NONE of my practices are supernatural. Its applied psychology and psychodrama.
Manipulation: Good and evil are in the perception of the person looking inward.
If a child throws a fit in the supermarket because his mom wont buy him a box of animal crackers until she gives in and buys them, is he evil? was that an evil act? It is manipulation, the child is doing what comes naturally to him to get what he wants from someone else and it worked so he will likely repeat this behavior down the line.
What about a woman who wants sex with her boss or a guy at a bar so she goes to work or the bar wearing a slinky revealing dress, she bends over at work, she smiles at her boss, she touches his leg to get him aroused...is that evil? she is manipulating him to get what she wants.
Evil and Good are perceptions. If manipulating someone to get what we want is evil, then lots of us are in serious trouble. But
For the Psychic who manipulates, most of her clients already believe in her gifts, so all she is doing is going along with their beliefs and taking their goods, if she were to tell them-like I do in regards to my products-that she was a fake, they wouldnt likely believe her because she is so damned good OR they would believe she was a fake and go to a different Psychic so her honesty would not benefit her, it would harm her so she continues to go along with what people think.
I dont see that as wrong in the least. Remember, right and wrong are also perceptions, what we should instead be looking at is this- does this benefit me in the long run?
In EVERY issue we have in life, we can ask ourselves this question and have a great life, one filled with indulgence, power, money, happiness, whatever it is that we are seeking to have!
Lucifer is another word for Satan, I use them Interchangably myself.
Though I could be wrong, ask the other guy Smile
Hobo
What do I think are new age beliefs? "New age" encompasses a lot of things and not everyone agrees on exactly what falls under the term. Astrology is a perfect example of that. Some say it's new age and others say it's not. Examples of things that at least some call "new age" are meditation (and many of the ritualistic accompaniments such as meditative music and burning incense), astral projection, parapsychology, astrology, channeling, crystal healing, reincarnation, and earth mysteries (cultural and religious beliefs about the earth). There are probably more that I'm not remembering off the top of my head too. Some of what you describe sounds like a subset of new age philosophies, particularly the meditation and rituals, but I understand your point that those don't have to be related to new age.

Regarding manipulation, I suppose there are different connotations. The example you provided of the woman trying to seduce her boss doesn't sound so bad (especially if you're the boss Tongue ), but the so-called psychic willfully lying to people in order to take their money just because they are vulnerable due to their own naivete or stupidity is wrong in my moral code.

Just listening to you and Pr0fanus, something else becomes clear. You two don't agree on what Satanism is about which is an awful lot like two Baptists who don't give the same answer when asked what it is to be a Baptist.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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21-11-2012, 12:17 PM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(21-11-2012 11:37 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 12:54 PM)Irishdize Wrote:  Im not sure what you think are new age beliefs.
Satanists do not believe in Psychics, astrology or any new age nonsense.
Rituals arent really new age. Ritual can be something as simple as lighting a candle and reading a book or spirit dancing or meditation, its all up to the individual and I personally have incooperated several practices from different traditions into my practice but NONE of my practices are supernatural. Its applied psychology and psychodrama.
Manipulation: Good and evil are in the perception of the person looking inward.
If a child throws a fit in the supermarket because his mom wont buy him a box of animal crackers until she gives in and buys them, is he evil? was that an evil act? It is manipulation, the child is doing what comes naturally to him to get what he wants from someone else and it worked so he will likely repeat this behavior down the line.
What about a woman who wants sex with her boss or a guy at a bar so she goes to work or the bar wearing a slinky revealing dress, she bends over at work, she smiles at her boss, she touches his leg to get him aroused...is that evil? she is manipulating him to get what she wants.
Evil and Good are perceptions. If manipulating someone to get what we want is evil, then lots of us are in serious trouble. But
For the Psychic who manipulates, most of her clients already believe in her gifts, so all she is doing is going along with their beliefs and taking their goods, if she were to tell them-like I do in regards to my products-that she was a fake, they wouldnt likely believe her because she is so damned good OR they would believe she was a fake and go to a different Psychic so her honesty would not benefit her, it would harm her so she continues to go along with what people think.
I dont see that as wrong in the least. Remember, right and wrong are also perceptions, what we should instead be looking at is this- does this benefit me in the long run?
In EVERY issue we have in life, we can ask ourselves this question and have a great life, one filled with indulgence, power, money, happiness, whatever it is that we are seeking to have!
Lucifer is another word for Satan, I use them Interchangably myself.
Though I could be wrong, ask the other guy Smile
Hobo
What do I think are new age beliefs? "New age" encompasses a lot of things and not everyone agrees on exactly what falls under the term. Astrology is a perfect example of that. Some say it's new age and others say it's not. Examples of things that at least some call "new age" are meditation (and many of the ritualistic accompaniments such as meditative music and burning incense), astral projection, parapsychology, astrology, channeling, crystal healing, reincarnation, and earth mysteries (cultural and religious beliefs about the earth). There are probably more that I'm not remembering off the top of my head too. Some of what you describe sounds like a subset of new age philosophies, particularly the meditation and rituals, but I understand your point that those don't have to be related to new age.

Regarding manipulation, I suppose there are different connotations. The example you provided of the woman trying to seduce her boss doesn't sound so bad (especially if you're the boss Tongue ), but the so-called psychic willfully lying to people in order to take their money just because they are vulnerable due to their own naivete or stupidity is wrong in my moral code.

Just listening to you and Pr0fanus, something else becomes clear. You two don't agree on what Satanism is about which is an awful lot like two Baptists who don't give the same answer when asked what it is to be a Baptist.


I burn incense and scented candles and such because I love the smells, they are soothing to me, Its not connected to any new age beliefs or ideas for me, I burn sage as well but again for the smell, I think that falls in line with astectics which is something a Satanist should engage in, surrounding ourselves with things that are engaging to us in one way or another, for some its artwork that hangs on every wall, for me, its scented candles and a beautifully decorated apt.
However, I was raised in Witchcraft so many of the practices i engage in like spirit dancing or trance could stem from that upbringing but outside of Ritual we are supposed to use our logical and rational brains, know what is reality from fiction in other words but when we go into the Ritual chamber so to speak we are supposed to suspend disbelief and just let whatever happens-happen and thats what i try to do, Outside I have stripped down all of my practices to make sure they are not woo but once in ritual if I spirit dance into a trance state and see my dead mom, thats ok, Its psychodrama and fantasy and as long as I come out of ritual with that perspective and do not find myself now believing in Ghosts and other WOO concepts, all is well.
Lesser magic to me is manipulating the world around me to get what I want or need, I would never harm those in my circle of 9 but for me, Morals are subjective, I am not concerned with what is moral or not since what might be completely natural to me could be completely immoral to you (like homosexuality for example) so instead I look at what benefits me in the long run-working as a psychic like my friend does benefits her and does not harm anyone in her circle so its ok for her to do.
I dont think any Satanists (or not many, LOL) agree on anything. Its a philosphy which is about Individuality and Independence first and foremost, we are freethinkers, we do what works best for us, Yes, there is a guideline of how we should be but nothing is written in stone and its no different than atheism, all you have in common is lack of belief in God, you could have atheists who are con men, criminals, saints, believe in ghosts and magic or dont, believe in stem cell research or the death penalty or who do not, I dont see any difference actually, we are human, we have our ideas and interpretations of things we read, I am more radical than most, I take things very deeply, if I read for example--Im not Wiccan nor have I ever been but the rede-an it harm none, do what ye will-I feel it includes animals, an it harm NONE, that includes animals and Yes Ive heard all of the arguments pro and con on this issue but I am an all or nothing person, I go beyond what is written and look beneath the surface which most people do not seem to do (which is fine for them) so Pr0fanus may not be of the same ilk as I, he/she may read something differently and that ok, if we all agreed, we wouldnt be our own people now would we?
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22-11-2012, 01:20 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 06:54 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 04:44 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  He had previously made a statement that dictionaries lack proper terminology regarding the word. I thought he meant the description of a Wiccan priest(ess). It does not matter, as the same exact dictionary citations describe non-Wiccan witches accurately as well.

Which type of dictionary are you citing? Prescriptive or descriptive?
Would you consider Merriam Webster, Dictionary.com, etc prescriptive or descriptive?

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22-11-2012, 01:34 AM
Atheism and Satanism
(22-11-2012 01:20 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 06:54 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Which type of dictionary are you citing? Prescriptive or descriptive?
Would you consider Merriam Webster, Dictionary.com, etc prescriptive or descriptive?

My inexpert opinion would be:

Merriam-Webster = descriptive
Oxford English = prescriptive

I suspect Dictionary.com would also be descriptive. Not suggesting one is more correct than another. Just though you might want to be on the same page.

Satanists Dictionary....still not sure about that one.

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22-11-2012, 09:23 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(22-11-2012 01:34 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(22-11-2012 01:20 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Would you consider Merriam Webster, Dictionary.com, etc prescriptive or descriptive?

My inexpert opinion would be:

Merriam-Webster = descriptive
Oxford English = prescriptive

I suspect Dictionary.com would also be descriptive. Not suggesting one is more correct than another. Just though you might want to be on the same page.

Satanists Dictionary....still not sure about that one.

What is Satanists Dictionary?
Never heard of that.
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22-11-2012, 09:24 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(22-11-2012 09:23 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  
(22-11-2012 01:34 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  My inexpert opinion would be:

Merriam-Webster = descriptive
Oxford English = prescriptive

I suspect Dictionary.com would also be descriptive. Not suggesting one is more correct than another. Just though you might want to be on the same page.

Satanists Dictionary....still not sure about that one.

What is Satanists Dictionary?
Never heard of that.
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22-11-2012, 09:55 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
Skeptics Dictionary?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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23-11-2012, 01:36 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(22-11-2012 09:55 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Skeptics Dictionary?

I love that site, skepdic.com and I also own the companion book and find it to be insightful and provacative, a great read! I also am in the process of reading-greta christina's book-99 reasons atheists are so angry! I recommend the book of Satanic quotes because it can be read and used by any freethinker, atheist, humanist, Pantheist, etc
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