Atheism and Satanism
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19-11-2012, 08:58 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
If you identify yourself with a cult, you are not fucking level-headed.

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19-11-2012, 09:08 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(18-11-2012 05:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  I really don't think there is a useful, meaningful, true sentence that contains the phrase "Atheism and Satanism". Drinking Beverage


There is no "Atheism". It's "atheism".


I capitalize random words Ive done it Since I was a kid, I cant really help it so I by habit do so with words such as Witch and Atheist so that its consistant and doesnt end up looking like this, Im an atheist, youre an Atheist, she is an atheist, he is an Atheist.

Sorry about that but I was tested as a kid to determine why I do it and no one knows, Its just a habit these days more than anything.

Shadakism and Satanism are my belief systems, I see no reason to diverge at this point from either of them. Sure, some people do not understand why we call ourselves Satanists but I am able to grasp the meaning/reason. Some people here do not see the point of Ritual. I do though and even when I was an Atheist I still partook in Rituals because of their meaning in my life and their use.
So, even if I was to suddenly realize, wow, youre right, Satanism is a misnomer and I am not a Shadak anymore-I am just an atheist, I would still do random ritual days.
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19-11-2012, 09:11 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
We have already laid out our understanding of Satanism. LaVey was a paranoid shit who wanted to keep undesirables out. Whoopty fuckin' doo. And this isn't a cult how?

Yes, you are an atheist. Buddhists are atheists too, but they are much more enjoyable to be around.

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19-11-2012, 09:42 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(19-11-2012 08:58 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  If you identify yourself with a cult, you are not fucking level-headed.


Weve covered this already.

Satanism and Witchcraft are NOT cults.
we do not have a leader, we are not isolated, we are not asked to give away all of our belongings, we are not small in numbers, we are not controlled when it comes to life and death, we are not told how to live our lives, we think for ourselves, we are not living isolated from our friends and families.
These are the guideposts to a cult. Satanism and Witchcraft are not cults. However...
Break it down, dont throw a dictionary at me, tell me specifically what makes it a cult, what makes belief in the self, Individuality, self awareness, doing whatever works for me, random rituals, etc a cult?
And are all Religions cults?
What about Atheism? Is an atheist who meditates in a cult? why?
does lighting candles and incense and chanting make me in a cult? why? Buddhism is a cult?
Im not Joking. If I was to go undercover as a Journalist and investigate different groups, what telltale signs should I be looking for to identify something as a cult? I have researched hundreds of reigions as a UU growing up and I think I would know the difference between them based on what the common guidelines are but maybe I missed something?
This christian site defines a cult as any group including atheists who deviate from Christian teachings OR by the definition I have always understood a cult to be:
What Is a Religious Cult?

WHAT IS A CULT?- Introduction
With such an overwhelming number of religious groups around these days, it is necessary to understand the difference between a legitimate religious group and a cult. What exactly is a cult?
WHAT IS A CULT- Definitions
There are two ways to define a cult. The first way to describe a cult is popular in the secular media. From this perspective, a cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization.
This kind of cult is usually manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from its followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their own families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are some examples of this kind of a cult.
Witchcraft and Satanism in and of itself is not manipulative, I am but thats me, and some members may also be but not all of us practice lesser magic, and some dont even practice greater magic, it depends on each member and their desires.
Satanism does not demand total commitment, in fact you do not even have to become a member of the chuch of Satan to be a Satanist, there are plenty of Satanists around that are not members so they have no way of knowing who is a member or not. Witchcraft doesnt have an organization to join so there is no way for anyone to know who is a Witch and how many there are. No Satanist is told to cut off family members or friends-or former associations, in fact Satanism is about embracing the world around us, we are not told we have to give up anything in order to be a Satanist. And as Ive already explained, we dont have a leader, we are a very decentralized group of people. we are individuals. Im sorry but you have not adequetly shown your position to convince me.
I am a very level headed person, I am an explorer, I will never just close my eyes and ears and say, I am right, you are wrong, I research everything, every explanation, every nuance, I explore, when someone makes a post and says they are a Davola Priest, I dont just laugh and say, OK, I research it, I find out exactly what they are and what they believe and thats how I have always been, I didnt walk into these beliefs blindly. I have and am still researching them, I was raised with critical thinking skills and a need for ritual and meditation, I think one can be very spiritual or religious even and still have a brain that they use on a regular basis. Its when you allow yourself to be caught up in supernaturalism, superstitions, contradictory beliefs, cults, etc that you get yourself into trouble and you must be vigilant, always paying attention to your own practices and ideas, its easy especially in Witchcraft to get caught up in certain rules like-waiting for the doors to open, Shadaks believe that you have to sit and wait for whatever changes you want in your life, its easy to get caught in that trap. Instead, you take what works and discard what does not work when it comes to that.
Oh well.
Some people will choose to believe despite the overwhelming evidence. I thought Atheists would be a bit more logical/rational but you are human. so...
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19-11-2012, 10:27 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(19-11-2012 09:42 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  WHAT IS A CULT?- Introduction
With such an overwhelming number of religious groups around these days, it is necessary to understand the difference between a legitimate religious group and a cult. What exactly is a cult?
Cult can also mean "(formal) a system of religious beliefs and practices"... From OALD.

By that definition I would consider myself part of a cult.
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19-11-2012, 10:40 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(19-11-2012 10:27 AM)Gaest Wrote:  
(19-11-2012 09:42 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  WHAT IS A CULT?- Introduction
With such an overwhelming number of religious groups around these days, it is necessary to understand the difference between a legitimate religious group and a cult. What exactly is a cult?
Cult can also mean "(formal) a system of religious beliefs and practices"... From OALD.

By that definition I would consider myself part of a cult.


By that definition, all religions are cults.
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19-11-2012, 11:37 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(19-11-2012 10:40 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  
(19-11-2012 10:27 AM)Gaest Wrote:  Cult can also mean "(formal) a system of religious beliefs and practices"... From OALD.

By that definition I would consider myself part of a cult.


By that definition, all religions are cults.
Congratulations. You have come to realize something we have done so ages ago.

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19-11-2012, 11:37 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(19-11-2012 10:40 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  
(19-11-2012 10:27 AM)Gaest Wrote:  Cult can also mean "(formal) a system of religious beliefs and practices"... From OALD.

By that definition I would consider myself part of a cult.


By that definition, all religions are cults.
Yup, all religions are cults. Anyway, I threw the definition out to supplement your post by giving a second definition.
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19-11-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(19-11-2012 09:42 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  
(19-11-2012 08:58 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  If you identify yourself with a cult, you are not fucking level-headed.


Weve covered this already.

Satanism and Witchcraft are NOT cults.
we do not have a leader, we are not isolated, we are not asked to give away all of our belongings, we are not small in numbers, we are not controlled when it comes to life and death, we are not told how to live our lives, we think for ourselves, we are not living isolated from our friends and families.
These are the guideposts to a cult. Satanism and Witchcraft are not cults. However...
Break it down, dont throw a dictionary at me, tell me specifically what makes it a cult, what makes belief in the self, Individuality, self awareness, doing whatever works for me, random rituals, etc a cult?
And are all Religions cults?
What about Atheism? Is an atheist who meditates in a cult? why?
does lighting candles and incense and chanting make me in a cult? why? Buddhism is a cult?
Im not Joking. If I was to go undercover as a Journalist and investigate different groups, what telltale signs should I be looking for to identify something as a cult? I have researched hundreds of reigions as a UU growing up and I think I would know the difference between them based on what the common guidelines are but maybe I missed something?
This christian site defines a cult as any group including atheists who deviate from Christian teachings OR by the definition I have always understood a cult to be:
What Is a Religious Cult?

WHAT IS A CULT?- Introduction
With such an overwhelming number of religious groups around these days, it is necessary to understand the difference between a legitimate religious group and a cult. What exactly is a cult?
WHAT IS A CULT- Definitions
There are two ways to define a cult. The first way to describe a cult is popular in the secular media. From this perspective, a cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization.
This kind of cult is usually manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from its followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their own families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are some examples of this kind of a cult.
Witchcraft and Satanism in and of itself is not manipulative, I am but thats me, and some members may also be but not all of us practice lesser magic, and some dont even practice greater magic, it depends on each member and their desires.
Satanism does not demand total commitment, in fact you do not even have to become a member of the chuch of Satan to be a Satanist, there are plenty of Satanists around that are not members so they have no way of knowing who is a member or not. Witchcraft doesnt have an organization to join so there is no way for anyone to know who is a Witch and how many there are. No Satanist is told to cut off family members or friends-or former associations, in fact Satanism is about embracing the world around us, we are not told we have to give up anything in order to be a Satanist. And as Ive already explained, we dont have a leader, we are a very decentralized group of people. we are individuals. Im sorry but you have not adequetly shown your position to convince me.
I am a very level headed person, I am an explorer, I will never just close my eyes and ears and say, I am right, you are wrong, I research everything, every explanation, every nuance, I explore, when someone makes a post and says they are a Davola Priest, I dont just laugh and say, OK, I research it, I find out exactly what they are and what they believe and thats how I have always been, I didnt walk into these beliefs blindly. I have and am still researching them, I was raised with critical thinking skills and a need for ritual and meditation, I think one can be very spiritual or religious even and still have a brain that they use on a regular basis. Its when you allow yourself to be caught up in supernaturalism, superstitions, contradictory beliefs, cults, etc that you get yourself into trouble and you must be vigilant, always paying attention to your own practices and ideas, its easy especially in Witchcraft to get caught up in certain rules like-waiting for the doors to open, Shadaks believe that you have to sit and wait for whatever changes you want in your life, its easy to get caught in that trap. Instead, you take what works and discard what does not work when it comes to that.
Oh well.
Some people will choose to believe despite the overwhelming evidence. I thought Atheists would be a bit more logical/rational but you are human. so...
And why the fuck do all you dumbass Satanists seem to lack a fucking dictionary? All three of you buffoons supply us with your own definitions of cult, none of which agree with the actual definition. Drinking Beverage

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19-11-2012, 02:54 PM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(19-11-2012 11:40 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(19-11-2012 09:42 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  Weve covered this already.

Satanism and Witchcraft are NOT cults.
we do not have a leader, we are not isolated, we are not asked to give away all of our belongings, we are not small in numbers, we are not controlled when it comes to life and death, we are not told how to live our lives, we think for ourselves, we are not living isolated from our friends and families.
These are the guideposts to a cult. Satanism and Witchcraft are not cults. However...
Break it down, dont throw a dictionary at me, tell me specifically what makes it a cult, what makes belief in the self, Individuality, self awareness, doing whatever works for me, random rituals, etc a cult?
And are all Religions cults?
What about Atheism? Is an atheist who meditates in a cult? why?
does lighting candles and incense and chanting make me in a cult? why? Buddhism is a cult?
Im not Joking. If I was to go undercover as a Journalist and investigate different groups, what telltale signs should I be looking for to identify something as a cult? I have researched hundreds of reigions as a UU growing up and I think I would know the difference between them based on what the common guidelines are but maybe I missed something?
This christian site defines a cult as any group including atheists who deviate from Christian teachings OR by the definition I have always understood a cult to be:
What Is a Religious Cult?

WHAT IS A CULT?- Introduction
With such an overwhelming number of religious groups around these days, it is necessary to understand the difference between a legitimate religious group and a cult. What exactly is a cult?
WHAT IS A CULT- Definitions
There are two ways to define a cult. The first way to describe a cult is popular in the secular media. From this perspective, a cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization.
This kind of cult is usually manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from its followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their own families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are some examples of this kind of a cult.
Witchcraft and Satanism in and of itself is not manipulative, I am but thats me, and some members may also be but not all of us practice lesser magic, and some dont even practice greater magic, it depends on each member and their desires.
Satanism does not demand total commitment, in fact you do not even have to become a member of the chuch of Satan to be a Satanist, there are plenty of Satanists around that are not members so they have no way of knowing who is a member or not. Witchcraft doesnt have an organization to join so there is no way for anyone to know who is a Witch and how many there are. No Satanist is told to cut off family members or friends-or former associations, in fact Satanism is about embracing the world around us, we are not told we have to give up anything in order to be a Satanist. And as Ive already explained, we dont have a leader, we are a very decentralized group of people. we are individuals. Im sorry but you have not adequetly shown your position to convince me.
I am a very level headed person, I am an explorer, I will never just close my eyes and ears and say, I am right, you are wrong, I research everything, every explanation, every nuance, I explore, when someone makes a post and says they are a Davola Priest, I dont just laugh and say, OK, I research it, I find out exactly what they are and what they believe and thats how I have always been, I didnt walk into these beliefs blindly. I have and am still researching them, I was raised with critical thinking skills and a need for ritual and meditation, I think one can be very spiritual or religious even and still have a brain that they use on a regular basis. Its when you allow yourself to be caught up in supernaturalism, superstitions, contradictory beliefs, cults, etc that you get yourself into trouble and you must be vigilant, always paying attention to your own practices and ideas, its easy especially in Witchcraft to get caught up in certain rules like-waiting for the doors to open, Shadaks believe that you have to sit and wait for whatever changes you want in your life, its easy to get caught in that trap. Instead, you take what works and discard what does not work when it comes to that.
Oh well.
Some people will choose to believe despite the overwhelming evidence. I thought Atheists would be a bit more logical/rational but you are human. so...
And why the fuck do all you dumbass Satanists seem to lack a fucking dictionary? All three of you buffoons supply us with your own definitions of cult, none of which agree with the actual definition. Drinking Beverage

I am very aware of the dictionary definition, what you are not understanding is that dictionary can be wrong, It also says http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/witch a Witch is a woman (so no men) who contact the devil (nope) to work black magic (uh...no) OR
an ugly woman. (lol) OR someone with supernatural powers such as flying (since when?) OR a practioner of Wicca (not always) and then it lists others. Its false. My nephew is a Witch, He is not a man, my sister is a Witch, she doesnt even believe in the devil and she refuses to do black magic and she definately cant fly. Please. How silly. I know that the dictionary says all religions are cults, This is false. Regardless though of whether its false or not, It doesnt change any of the arguments at hand. Smile
To be honest, I am on 3 threads I think? and I have lost track of the argument. I dont know which is which and I do not care anymore. I am a Satanist, I am very dedicated to this path, I am also a latent UU and Witch and I am as dedicated to those paths as I can be. I love my life and my ways. I definately fit into Atheism to a degree (a strong degree) or I wouldnt have posted here in the first place.
In fact, before I was where I am now, I was an Atheist. Though I was spiritual and called myself such, for lack of a better term, i could not understand what I was other than a spiritual atheist, after all I had no god beliefs, no supernaturalism, no superstitions, I believed in science, ration, logic, skepticism, I read authors like harris and dawkins and more recently Greta christina's book-99 reasons atheists are angry (or what not) and yet I engaged in rituals and ceremonies from different religions, This is what led me to explore UU and embrace different ideas and paths, I have learned to have a healthy respect for all paths and ideas even if I do not agree with them.
Then I discovered Satanism which made more sense to me than saying I was a spiritual atheist. Satanism embraced Rituals which I was already engaged in but honored every other aspect of atheism otherwise and so that is why I call myself a Satanist. I agree with it. I do not see ay reason why a person cannot embrace a logical POV and a spiritual POV at the same time, Unfortunately those here who cant stand Christian fundies are just as fundy--You see your POV and cant open up to mine which is your choice but still a fundie position!
I came here in peace to explain who I was and where I was coming from and was met with disdain, name calling and personal attacks against me (ad hom) Satanism and Witchcraft stand on their own, They dont need me to stand up for them!
UU also. I defended my position and sure I like to get loud, nothing wrong with that Smile It doesnt seem to me like anyone is willing to LEARN or GROW here, I am all about that and I have learned a great deal here, I am leaving with that new knowledge and I am happy I had a chance to be here and see things from a new perspective, thank you for that!
Now, I am off to see the lizard
Hail Satan-which means hail yourself by the way. Now for the other side of my BES
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