Atheism and Satanism
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20-11-2012, 11:19 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 09:33 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(29-02-2012 10:31 AM)katbus Wrote:  I am an Atheist. I also identify with Satanist. I follow Anton LaVey's Satanism. The reason I am bringing up the topic of Satanism is because of the most recent podcast "living after faith" where I found myself shocked and slightly saddened to hear the thinking atheist discuss Satanism and laugh at the idea of a "level headed" Satanist. He went on to say he believed that probably Satanists identified as such for shock value. I am personally offended by the idea. Satanism has been given such a bad name.

I am a very level-headed individual, and do not want to shock people. In fact, my Satanism has to stay under wraps because of my job and because I don't want the negative attention associated with Satanism. I am just making this topic to hear the opinions of other free-thinkers regarding Satanism. How do you personally feel about it? What do you actually know about it? What are your thoughts?

Please discuss this topic with me! I was so surprised to find such an amazing guy as the thinking atheist sound so closed-minded (though in his defense, he admitted ignorance and said he would look further into it) and ignorant on this topic.

Just curious if anyone out there would like to discuss this with me. Maybe even learn about it from someone on the inside of it, to prevent ignorance on this subject.

Thanks!
I know nothing about satanism or the church of satan.

My impression has always been that it is related to the biblical satan and so I have always felt a predisposition against the whole idea before hearing any more. Whether you believe in a god or not, satan represents evil so I don't know why anyone would be interested in that.

If I'm wrong about what satanism is, please correct me since I am only interested in truth.

That said, how is it that you're both an atheist and a satanist? Maybe my lack of knowledge about satanism is at fault, but those seem contradictory.

Also, if satanism is not related to the biblical satan, then why is it named as such?

Edit:
Aw man, I just noticed the OP was back in February and this is a resurrected old thread. Katbus hasn't been back to it, so I doubt I'll be getting any replies to my questions.
You are. In the context of modern Satanism, "Satan" has little to do with the Christian view of Satan. "Satan" comes from the Hebrew term "satan", meaning "to oppose" or "to obstruct". The Hebrew word for Satan, ha-Satan ("the Satan") means "the adversary" or "the opposer". This is the essence of "Satan" for Satanists. To Satanists, Satan doesn't represent evil. He represents progress, truth and carnality (in brief).

Most Satanists are indeed atheists, because Satan is taken as a symbol, not as a deity.

If there is no Russian nobility in the U.S. government, why are members of it called "czars"? The name was chosen for multiple reasons. It made the point (or one of them, at least) LaVey was trying to make: Christianity and what's been called "slave mentality" have dominated religions for too long. That's why everyone has that emotional response when they first hear the word "Satanist". There's no denying the word served it's purpose: it was shocking, it repelled many of those who were not welcome to begin with and it was meaningful to those who understood, as well as pulling in those who shared a love for a certain artistic style. Reading up on Satanism will most certainly make this clearer for you; I'm not much of a teacher. I recommend getting The Satanic Bible or The Devil's Notebook from Amazon, they're pretty cheap and you'll have a conversation starter.
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20-11-2012, 11:38 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 09:33 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(29-02-2012 10:31 AM)katbus Wrote:  I am an Atheist. I also identify with Satanist. I follow Anton LaVey's Satanism. The reason I am bringing up the topic of Satanism is because of the most recent podcast "living after faith" where I found myself shocked and slightly saddened to hear the thinking atheist discuss Satanism and laugh at the idea of a "level headed" Satanist. He went on to say he believed that probably Satanists identified as such for shock value. I am personally offended by the idea. Satanism has been given such a bad name.

I am a very level-headed individual, and do not want to shock people. In fact, my Satanism has to stay under wraps because of my job and because I don't want the negative attention associated with Satanism. I am just making this topic to hear the opinions of other free-thinkers regarding Satanism. How do you personally feel about it? What do you actually know about it? What are your thoughts?

Please discuss this topic with me! I was so surprised to find such an amazing guy as the thinking atheist sound so closed-minded (though in his defense, he admitted ignorance and said he would look further into it) and ignorant on this topic.

Just curious if anyone out there would like to discuss this with me. Maybe even learn about it from someone on the inside of it, to prevent ignorance on this subject.

Thanks!
I know nothing about satanism or the church of satan.

My impression has always been that it is related to the biblical satan and so I have always felt a predisposition against the whole idea before hearing any more. Whether you believe in a god or not, satan represents evil so I don't know why anyone would be interested in that.

If I'm wrong about what satanism is, please correct me since I am only interested in truth.

That said, how is it that you're both an atheist and a satanist? Maybe my lack of knowledge about satanism is at fault, but those seem contradictory.

Also, if satanism is not related to the biblical satan, then why is it named as such?

Edit:
Aw man, I just noticed the OP was back in February and this is a resurrected old thread. Katbus hasn't been back to it, so I doubt I'll be getting any replies to my questions.


Churchofsatan.com has an excellent FAQ that will answer all of these questions and more but I will explain briefly and hope that you will still go to the website to explore a bit, if you are as to say, interested in the truth.
Satanism was created on Beltane (April 30th) 1966 by Anton LaVey, it was a reaction to Christianity but in the end has very little to do with Satanism and Satanists do not believe in God nor the Devil as real deities, we are in fact Atheists first and foremost and we also have no beliefs in the supernatural and are usually not superstitious.
Satanists call themselves Satanists because The Satan in MANY cultures, NOT JUST CHRISTIANITY (Satan in one form or another has existed in many world religions throughout time-some before Christianity) Represents those qualities that we seek to emulate in our lives. Individuality, rebellion against organized and whitelight religions, indulgence of what life has to offer and so much more, we are rebels so to speak against that which we are expected to be or conform to. Satan therefore is a symbol of man's carnal nature, the beast within.
I have heard other reasons for the name Satan but I do not give them much stock (at the moment).
Most Satanists consider this to be their philosophy since there is no God/No supernaturalism and Yet we do have Rituals. I find Rituals and ceremonies to be quite useful to my psyche and my physical and emotional well being and in fact practiced Rituals while I thought I was an Atheist. Rituals are basically taking time away from the stresses of our lives and spending that time meditating, reading, dancing, chanting or whatever else one feels they should do, Satanists call this Greater Magic. Now of course I am logical enough to realize that some of the descriptors used in Satanism seem to be misnomers like calling the act of manipulating people for your own needs 'lesser magic' but that is what LaVey chose to call it and what followers of Satanism choose to call it and I am a Satanist for sure so I guess that is what I shall call it though if you got into a discussion with me in depth and in RL, I would use proper terms and descriptors for what I believe in and do.
Before I discovered Satanism, I simply called myself a Spiritual Atheist and later a Naturalistic Pagan but these terms never adequetly described me 100% to the letter to what I was believing in and practicing like Satanism does.
Satanism is NOT evil, In fact its the Christian religion (and other white light religions) that paint Satan as evil but think about something for a moment, Just a brief passage from the OT (not that I believe in it as a truthful account but look at the story) God told Adam and Eve that if they ate from the tree of knowedge that on that day ON THAT DAY they would die. Satan came along and told them, no, you wont die today, you will have complete knowledge of good and evil and live for many years and then die. who is the evil one in this story? God lied. Satan did not. But that aside....
It depends on what you call evil. Satanists do not believe in stealing, murder, rape, drugs, etc, In every action that we could engage in, we are to ask ourselves, does this benefit me or someone in the circle of 9 (a group of close friends/family we love dearly) Does murdering the man who raped my sister benefit me? Short term Yes, Id feel good about it, maybe, she might feel safer, society might be better off especially since he got away with it and is still out there BUT long term NO, I would be in jail, Id be cut off from my family and friends and my sister who needs me now more than ever, I would lose my rights as an individual and probably my anal virginity, LOL :O
So in every action, I am always looking at the bigger picture and deciding what is wrong or right long and short term. Satanism has actually helped me become a better person in many ways and in some ways allowed me to be who I always have been. Smile Though some acts that Satanists decide does benefit them short and long term may not benefit all people everywhere and you may consider that evil, take for example....let me think....a Psychic who is also a Satanist, she doesnt believe in Psychic ability and yet her clients do, she needs the money from the clients so she benefits both short and long term-and she already knows that if the client i stupid enough to believe that they deserve to be shown disrespect and treated in kind (a Satanic tenent)....so she works as a psychic and writes books and people buy those and she becomes quite well known but she is a fraud. she did what benefited her though and continues to do so, my sister owns some of her books. Yes, she is a satanist. No, I wont reveal who I am speaking of because it ultimately doesnt matter-its not the point. is that evil? she takes advantage of stupid people every day. Maybe, Evil is a matter of perception though.
So, Hopefully that helped, another great site is letters to the devil, They answer every question you could have about our position, Google it as I dont know the internet address off hand but definately check out the church of satan's website or Go to Youtube and watch some interviews with Peter Gilmore who is the current priest of the church.
Thanks for inquiring.
Hail Satan! (oh and this simply means, Hail Thyself, Satans see themselves as being the most important person in their own world, In other words, Out of the people in my corner of the world, I should look after me first, I should not give of myself if it would cause me no benefit to do so)
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20-11-2012, 11:43 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 09:46 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 08:47 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  Good Lord
Stop trying to twist my words around.
I said that the dictionary states very clearly that a Witch is an old woman, or a woman who connects to the devil for sorcery or black magic, a hag that rides a broomstick OR a Practioner of Wicca, BUT NOT ALL WITCHES ARE WICCAN SO THE DICTIONARY IS MISSING SEVERAL POINTS HERE AND IS IN ERROR
What about : a practioner of Magic (not black magic and not sorcery)
or how about: a MALE OR FEMALE
Or how about: someone who follows Pagan beliefs such as believe in a Goddess and magic
there are many missed definitions in the dictionary entry for the word Witch.
Satanism is also missed because its considered a philosophy by most of its adherents but there are some including myself who at this point (now read that carefully) at this point (I am always researching, always learning new information, always drawing new conclusions) who consider it to be their religion.
Take the time to read the other definitions, and you will find the droids you are looking for. Drinking Beverage I can tell that you do not even bother reading sources, so I am stopping here. Good day to you.


well, I must be blind then. I dont see anywhere in that definition that mentions male Witches, those who worship The Goddess or non wiccans but hey, whatever!
Good day to you too Smile
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20-11-2012, 11:55 AM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 09:46 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 08:47 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  Good Lord
Stop trying to twist my words around.
I said that the dictionary states very clearly that a Witch is an old woman, or a woman who connects to the devil for sorcery or black magic, a hag that rides a broomstick OR a Practioner of Wicca, BUT NOT ALL WITCHES ARE WICCAN SO THE DICTIONARY IS MISSING SEVERAL POINTS HERE AND IS IN ERROR
What about : a practioner of Magic (not black magic and not sorcery)
or how about: a MALE OR FEMALE
Or how about: someone who follows Pagan beliefs such as believe in a Goddess and magic
there are many missed definitions in the dictionary entry for the word Witch.
Satanism is also missed because its considered a philosophy by most of its adherents but there are some including myself who at this point (now read that carefully) at this point (I am always researching, always learning new information, always drawing new conclusions) who consider it to be their religion.
Take the time to read the other definitions, and you will find the droids you are looking for. Drinking Beverage I can tell that you do not even bother reading sources, so I am stopping here. Good day to you.
I think what he's trying to say is that a Wiccan is a witch, but a witch isn't necessarily a Wiccan, which is true. How about this: Atheism: the doctrine that there is no god, wickedness. Does that seem accurate to you? It's in the Merriam-Webster.
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20-11-2012, 12:15 PM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
Pr0fanis and Irishdize,

Thank you for those clarifications.

Some of what you describe sounds like new age beliefs. And I don't deny some of that - particularly meditation - can have real physical and psychological benefits. Other parts of new age thinking I want no part of - astrology and psychics, for example.

But back to something Irishdize has said, how is "manipulating people for your own needs" not evil?

Also, you have explained "Satan", but you have also used the term "Lucifer". Are these the same to you?

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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20-11-2012, 12:52 PM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 12:15 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Pr0fanis and Irishdize,

Thank you for those clarifications.

Some of what you describe sounds like new age beliefs. And I don't deny some of that - particularly meditation - can have real physical and psychological benefits. Other parts of new age thinking I want no part of - astrology and psychics, for example.

But back to something Irishdize has said, how is "manipulating people for your own needs" not evil?

Also, you have explained "Satan", but you have also used the term "Lucifer". Are these the same to you?
I fully share your hatred of things like astrology. I think the Satanic way to look at occultism is to take what works for you, what has a real psychological effect, and dump the rest.

I think Irish is either wording his statements rather poorly, perhaps on purpose, or just a bit mislead or confused. That, or his an egotistical dick, 8. Sin is all I'm going to on that. He's talking about Lesser Black Magic, which indeed is a means to "manipulate" people, if you wish to word it like that, but it's not as bad as it sounds. It's about being the best person you can be, i.e. looking sharp at that job interview, charming your date or knowing what to say to your in-laws. It's not as insidious as it sounds.

I'm not trying to whitewash Satanism, but that's how I see it.
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20-11-2012, 12:54 PM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 12:15 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Pr0fanis and Irishdize,

Thank you for those clarifications.

Some of what you describe sounds like new age beliefs. And I don't deny some of that - particularly meditation - can have real physical and psychological benefits. Other parts of new age thinking I want no part of - astrology and psychics, for example.

But back to something Irishdize has said, how is "manipulating people for your own needs" not evil?

Also, you have explained "Satan", but you have also used the term "Lucifer". Are these the same to you?


Im not sure what you think are new age beliefs.
Satanists do not believe in Psychics, astrology or any new age nonsense.
Rituals arent really new age. Ritual can be something as simple as lighting a candle and reading a book or spirit dancing or meditation, its all up to the individual and I personally have incooperated several practices from different traditions into my practice but NONE of my practices are supernatural. Its applied psychology and psychodrama.
Manipulation: Good and evil are in the perception of the person looking inward.
If a child throws a fit in the supermarket because his mom wont buy him a box of animal crackers until she gives in and buys them, is he evil? was that an evil act? It is manipulation, the child is doing what comes naturally to him to get what he wants from someone else and it worked so he will likely repeat this behavior down the line.
What about a woman who wants sex with her boss or a guy at a bar so she goes to work or the bar wearing a slinky revealing dress, she bends over at work, she smiles at her boss, she touches his leg to get him aroused...is that evil? she is manipulating him to get what she wants.
Evil and Good are perceptions. If manipulating someone to get what we want is evil, then lots of us are in serious trouble. But
For the Psychic who manipulates, most of her clients already believe in her gifts, so all she is doing is going along with their beliefs and taking their goods, if she were to tell them-like I do in regards to my products-that she was a fake, they wouldnt likely believe her because she is so damned good OR they would believe she was a fake and go to a different Psychic so her honesty would not benefit her, it would harm her so she continues to go along with what people think.
I dont see that as wrong in the least. Remember, right and wrong are also perceptions, what we should instead be looking at is this- does this benefit me in the long run?
In EVERY issue we have in life, we can ask ourselves this question and have a great life, one filled with indulgence, power, money, happiness, whatever it is that we are seeking to have!
Lucifer is another word for Satan, I use them Interchangably myself.
Though I could be wrong, ask the other guy Smile
Hobo
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20-11-2012, 12:58 PM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 12:52 PM)Pr0fanus Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 12:15 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Pr0fanis and Irishdize,

Thank you for those clarifications.

Some of what you describe sounds like new age beliefs. And I don't deny some of that - particularly meditation - can have real physical and psychological benefits. Other parts of new age thinking I want no part of - astrology and psychics, for example.

But back to something Irishdize has said, how is "manipulating people for your own needs" not evil?

Also, you have explained "Satan", but you have also used the term "Lucifer". Are these the same to you?
I fully share your hatred of things like astrology. I think the Satanic way to look at occultism is to take what works for you, what has a real psychological effect, and dump the rest.

I think Irish is either wording his statements rather poorly, perhaps on purpose, or just a bit mislead or confused. That, or his an egotistical dick, 8. Sin is all I'm going to on that. He's talking about Lesser Black Magic, which indeed is a means to "manipulate" people, if you wish to word it like that, but it's not as bad as it sounds. It's about being the best person you can be, i.e. looking sharp at that job interview, charming your date or knowing what to say to your in-laws. It's not as insidious as it sounds.

I'm not trying to whitewash Satanism, but that's how I see it.

So, You are saying that my friend who is a Psychic and a Satanist is not a Satanist because she works as a Psychic and knows that she is actually just a con artist?
Lesser Magic to me has always been about manipulating those around me and in the world to get what I want or need and that would definately include money if that was something I wanted to go after-I personally am more focused on other things but I am not opposed to my friend's needs.
Yes, all Ritual practices from meditation to spirit dancing to chanting are psychodrama, You take what works and discard the rest but they are not taken literally.
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20-11-2012, 01:00 PM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 12:15 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Pr0fanis and Irishdize,

Thank you for those clarifications.

Some of what you describe sounds like new age beliefs. And I don't deny some of that - particularly meditation - can have real physical and psychological benefits. Other parts of new age thinking I want no part of - astrology and psychics, for example.

But back to something Irishdize has said, how is "manipulating people for your own needs" not evil?

Also, you have explained "Satan", but you have also used the term "Lucifer". Are these the same to you?
Forgot to talk about Lucifer. Yes, in Occultism Satan and Lucifer are seen as separate. In LaVey's system, there are four Crown Princes of Hell, two of these are Satan and Lucifer. "SATAN - (Hebrew) adversary, opposite, accuser, Lord of fire, the inferno, the south
LUCIFER - (Roman) bringer of light, enlightenment, the air, the morning star, the east" (The Satanic Bible, 57). Lucifer comes from lux(=light) and ferre(=to bring, bear). So Lucifer is the light bringer. Like Prometheus, he's the guiding light that leads man to enlightenment, symbolically speaking.
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20-11-2012, 01:11 PM
RE: Atheism and Satanism
(20-11-2012 12:58 PM)Irishdize Wrote:  
(20-11-2012 12:52 PM)Pr0fanus Wrote:  I fully share your hatred of things like astrology. I think the Satanic way to look at occultism is to take what works for you, what has a real psychological effect, and dump the rest.

I think Irish is either wording his statements rather poorly, perhaps on purpose, or just a bit mislead or confused. That, or his an egotistical dick, 8. Sin is all I'm going to on that. He's talking about Lesser Black Magic, which indeed is a means to "manipulate" people, if you wish to word it like that, but it's not as bad as it sounds. It's about being the best person you can be, i.e. looking sharp at that job interview, charming your date or knowing what to say to your in-laws. It's not as insidious as it sounds.

I'm not trying to whitewash Satanism, but that's how I see it.

So, You are saying that my friend who is a Psychic and a Satanist is not a Satanist because she works as a Psychic and knows that she is actually just a con artist?
Lesser Magic to me has always been about manipulating those around me and in the world to get what I want or need and that would definately include money if that was something I wanted to go after-I personally am more focused on other things but I am not opposed to my friend's needs.
Yes, all Ritual practices from meditation to spirit dancing to chanting are psychodrama, You take what works and discard the rest but they are not taken literally.
I would require more details, but no, that wouldn't exclude your friend from being a Satanist. What remains to be seen is whether she's a good one.

I'm not sure just what you're talking about here, but you sound precisely like a psychic vampire. Not very Satanic.
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