Atheism and morality
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26-05-2015, 06:09 PM
RE: Atheism and morality
Does anyone else believe that moral nihilism is true?

I see a lot of people suggesting that society has something to do with morality. That seems so silly to me. Saying that society decides what is moral seems even sillier than suggesting that god decides. We all know that society is fucked up... at least the theist is claiming that a perfect and all powerful god decides it.

But seriously, are there any other moral nihilists out there...at all?
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26-05-2015, 06:11 PM
RE: Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 06:09 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Does anyone else believe that moral nihilism is true?

I see a lot of people suggesting that society has something to do with morality. That seems so silly to me. Saying that society decides what is moral seems even sillier than suggesting that god decides. We all know that society is fucked up... at least the theist is claiming that a perfect and all powerful god decides it.

But seriously, are there any other moral nihilists out there...at all?

Talking about how societies have implications on moral values is in the same realm as thinking in moral nihilism... what do you think moral nihilism means?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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26-05-2015, 06:12 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2015 06:20 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 05:52 PM)Stevil Wrote:  [quote]Is it surprising to you that I value my own family more than I do strangers?

No, that’s not surprising at all, in fact even I care for my own family, and friends more so than I do strangers, but this doesn’t mean that I don’t value, or care at all for strangers. It’s more surprising that you say that you value your family, j/k.

I do think it’s odd that you imagine this value is derived from rational considerations on your part, rather than recognizing your rationalizations as post hoc. In reality you likely value your family, along the lines of every other father, because you’re compelled by your own biological inclinations to, like a mother’s are in regards to nurturing their children. That the value is primarily derived by your empathy. If you didn’t love them, you’d likely be more willing to discard them or leave them. Of course you don’t like the term “love”, though I’m pretty sure you tell your wife and kids that you do love them.

What I think is funny is that you deride those who might act empathetically towards strangers, as actings out of ideals and dreams, and fuzzy feelings, while confessing to acting in such a way in regards to your family.
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26-05-2015, 06:20 PM
RE: Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 05:58 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And it's worth pointing out Tomasia that you've asked for (and been given repeatedly by multiple people) explanations and evidence to backup the assertion that morality is subjective. But you've never demonstrated your assertion that morality is objective.

When an average person recognizes that he would not like to be ripped off, and from this recognizes that ripping others off is wrong, will he tend to see this wrong as subjective or objective? Does he see the wrongness here as an illusion? Real?

Did those axial age sages who recognized and articulate the golden rule, see it as merely a suggestion, or perceive it more along the lines of an obligation?
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26-05-2015, 06:24 PM
Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 06:20 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-05-2015 05:58 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And it's worth pointing out Tomasia that you've asked for (and been given repeatedly by multiple people) explanations and evidence to backup the assertion that morality is subjective. But you've never demonstrated your assertion that morality is objective.

When an average person recognizes that he would not like to be ripped off, and from this recognizes that ripping others off is wrong, will he tend to see this wrong as subjective or objective? Does he see the wrongness here as an illusion? Real?

Did those axial age sages who recognized and articulate the golden rule, see it as merely a suggestion, or perceive it more along the lines of an obligation?

Like I've already explained, the "golden rule" is a behavior arrived at by multiple human populations independently through convergent evolution.

Ignoring the explanations away that explain (in natural terms) your attempts at a moral objective, is special pleading.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-05-2015, 06:26 PM
Atheism and morality
For instance, you've already admitted that one not need be a moral absolutist to arrive at the same conclusion as a moral objectivist when using the golden rule.

Your beliefs contradict observations in evolutionary biology and biological behaviors (like altruism).

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-05-2015, 06:28 PM
Atheism and morality
What's your endgame? What do you think it demonstrates if you could prove that morality is objective? Would it logically follow that a God must exist? If so, how?

You'll need to demonstrate that morality is objective in this process. Aaaaaaannd go!

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-05-2015, 06:43 PM
RE: Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 06:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What's your endgame? What do you think it demonstrates if you could prove that morality is objective? Would it logically follow that a God must exist? If so, how?

You'll need to demonstrate that morality is objective in this process. Aaaaaaannd go!

I don't have an end game. If I ask someone a question, it's out of curiosity for what the answers would be. I don't have some sort of plan in my pocket to take you down some path and then go "voila God".

I'm just curious as how those different than me, minds other than my own navigate. I'm just feeding my own curiosities, I don't have a particular desire to do much more than that.
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26-05-2015, 06:44 PM
Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 06:43 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-05-2015 06:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What's your endgame? What do you think it demonstrates if you could prove that morality is objective? Would it logically follow that a God must exist? If so, how?

You'll need to demonstrate that morality is objective in this process. Aaaaaaannd go!

I don't have an end game. If I ask someone a question, it's out of curiosity for what the answers would be. I don't have some sort of plan in my pocket to take you down some path and then go "voila God".

I'm just curious as how those different than me, minds other than my own navigate. I'm just feeding my own curiosities, I don't have a particular desire to do much more than that.

But you reject the answers they give you

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-05-2015, 06:44 PM
RE: Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 06:09 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Does anyone else believe that moral nihilism is true?

I see a lot of people suggesting that society has something to do with morality. That seems so silly to me. Saying that society decides what is moral seems even sillier than suggesting that god decides. We all know that society is fucked up... at least the theist is claiming that a perfect and all powerful god decides it.

But seriously, are there any other moral nihilists out there...at all?

Yes and no.

Nihilist... Yes.
Moral nihilist... No.

Next question?

Tongue

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