Atheism and morality
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26-05-2015, 07:01 PM
Atheism and morality
And in any event, this is all an aside so you can reject the evolution of morals as a behavioral trait. But you're failing...miserably.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-05-2015, 07:03 PM
RE: Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 06:51 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  It irks me that no one brought up the false equivocation here. In order for the comparison to be fair, the perpetrator of the fashion faux pa would have to be murdered for their transgression.

Only then are the two situations even close to being comparable, and I would argue that, in both, the reasons for the end action of murder is still completely subjective and, if you ask me, stupid and irrational. So that whole scenario would be irrelevant to this discussion.

Why does murder make honor killing any less subjective than a fashion faux pa?

Why does the comparison between the two require murder to be an aspect in both, anymore so than a pair of pumps?
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26-05-2015, 07:10 PM
RE: Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 06:59 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Please explain how values, beliefs, and culture are not behaviors of a biological organism and that they can arise independent of biology and exist without biology.

False analogy.

Values, beliefs, and culture are no more independent of our biology, than our rational capacities, and abilities to recognize what the truth is. This doesn't mean they are reducible to it either. As if someone left a trace of their DNA, we could know exactly what they believed and valued.
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26-05-2015, 07:11 PM
RE: Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 07:03 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why does murder make honor killing any less subjective than a fashion faux pa?

Why does the comparison between the two require murder to be an aspect in both, anymore so than a pair of pumps?

You missed the point. It makes the two equally subjective. The murder is required for both examples to have the same relevancy to the discussion.

An honor killing is in no way comparable to one's taste in shoes. The motive behind the killing is what should be discussed, and does not related to fashion unless the end action is comparable.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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26-05-2015, 07:11 PM
Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 07:10 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-05-2015 06:59 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Please explain how values, beliefs, and culture are not behaviors of a biological organism and that they can arise independent of biology and exist without biology.

False analogy.

Values, beliefs, and culture are no more independent of our biology, than our rational capacities, and abilities to recognize what the truth is. This doesn't mean they are reducible to it either. As if someone left a trace of their DNA, we could know exactly what they believed and valued.

No one ever said behavior had to be genetic. It isn't a false analogy, you just don't like it.

For instance, do you think nesting is genetic? Is it heritable?

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26-05-2015, 07:12 PM
Atheism and morality
Also, we know that memories and experiences, do affect our genetics.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...2212003028

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26-05-2015, 07:14 PM
Atheism and morality
http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2014/...s-memories

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-05-2015, 07:15 PM
Atheism and morality
You're failing here Tomasia. Telling me I'm wrong because you don't like it, is rubbish. Especially when that flies in the face of science which has demonstrated itself.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-05-2015, 07:17 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2015 07:20 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 07:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No one ever said behavior had to be genetic. It isn't a false analogy, you just don't like it.

Don't like what? It's quite difficult even to parse out a single thing you're getting at, your equivocation of cultural and biological evolution, your support for memetics, only further muddies the water here. You seem to introduce a bunch of shit, into a few tweet size sentences, and imagine that somehow I'm supposed to know what is you're talking about. You're all over the place.

Quote:For instance, do you think nesting is genetic? Is it heritable?

Sure.
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26-05-2015, 07:19 PM
Atheism and morality
(26-05-2015 07:17 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-05-2015 07:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No one ever said behavior had to be genetic. It isn't a false analogy, you just don't like it.

Don't like what? It's quite difficult even to parse out a single thing you're getting at, your equivocation of cultural and biological evolution, your support for memetics, only further muddies the water here. You seem to introduce a bunch of shit, into a few tweet size sentences, and imagine that someone I'm supposed to know what is you're talking about. You're all over the place.

Quote:For instance, do you think nesting is genetic? Is it heritable?

Sure.

Nesting isn't genetic. It's a learned trait.

Here, a quick search on science daily for DNA and memory
http://www.sciencedaily.com/search/?keyw...gsc.page=1

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