Atheism and morality
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-05-2015, 06:32 AM
Atheism and morality
One thing we can (or should) all agree on, is the morality clearly isn't objective Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like TheBeardedDude's post
28-05-2015, 06:34 AM
RE: Atheism and morality
(28-05-2015 06:03 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 04:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I provided a summary of what I think the argument here is in post 441, can you tell me if that's basically the gist here?

That's my take on it.

If the gist of my summary is correct, I don't see how the problem of objectivity only relates to mathematics, rather than all disciplines often associated with being objective. Or what the contextual problems associated with numbers, don't apply to pretty much every word in the english dictionary. If the argument here is correct, it doesn't seem to be merely claiming that objectivity doesn't exists in mathematics, but that objectivity doesn't exist at all. It all seems to be an argument for factual relativism, and not merely mathematical or moral relativism.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-05-2015, 06:36 AM
RE: Atheism and morality
(28-05-2015 06:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  One thing we can (or should) all agree on, is the morality clearly isn't objective Drinking Beverage

So it's subjective like mathematics is subjective?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-05-2015, 07:14 AM
RE: Atheism and morality
(28-05-2015 06:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 06:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  One thing we can (or should) all agree on, is the morality clearly isn't objective Drinking Beverage

So it's subjective like mathematics is subjective?

No.

They are very different. Mathematics is an axiomatic system; morality has not been shown to be such.

I also think there is some confusion about whether mathematics is subjective or objective. Those words don't really apply to mathematics. Mathematics is true by convention.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Chas's post
28-05-2015, 07:20 AM
Atheism and morality
(28-05-2015 06:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 06:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  One thing we can (or should) all agree on, is the morality clearly isn't objective Drinking Beverage

So it's subjective like mathematics is subjective?

No. Not at all. Have you even been paying attention?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-05-2015, 08:13 AM
RE: Atheism and morality
(28-05-2015 07:14 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 06:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So it's subjective like mathematics is subjective?

No.

They are very different. Mathematics is an axiomatic system; morality has not been shown to be such.

I also think there is some confusion about whether mathematics is subjective or objective. Those words don't really apply to mathematics. Mathematics is true by convention.

But not, objectively or subjectively true? So there are truths which are neither subjective or objective?

I don't think the fact there's some confusion here by different posters, is really helping all that much either.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-05-2015, 08:18 AM
RE: Atheism and morality
(28-05-2015 07:20 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 06:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So it's subjective like mathematics is subjective?

No. Not at all. Have you even been paying attention?

I thought I have.

To sum it up tweet size:

Math is subjective (except for Chas). Morality is subjective.

If the truth of something, is dependent on context it's not objective it's subjective, as per Evolutionkills.

I don't think you've inputed much in regards to this particular part of the discussion, so I can't say whose views you share here.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-05-2015, 08:21 AM
RE: Atheism and morality
I think I can start to see some of the problems here, a subtle conflation of subjective and relative, and objective and absolute.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-05-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: Atheism and morality
(28-05-2015 08:18 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 07:20 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No. Not at all. Have you even been paying attention?

I thought I have.

To sum it up tweet size:

Math is subjective (except for Chas). Morality is subjective.

If the truth of something, is dependent on context it's not objective it's subjective, as per Evolutionkills.

I don't think you've inputed much in regards to this particular part of the discussion, so I can't say whose views you share here.

it's a problem because you keep insisting on using terms and analogies that don't actually make sense to the idea you are using. Not everything either either Objective/subjective it can be that those don't make any sense to the context.

You keep never going anywhere but circles because you constantly for some reason want to box in ideas and use labels, to the determent of any understanding the thought and ideas. Boxing in ideas isn't learning from them to what they're actually saying. When you keep putting, well that person of that spectrum thinks that this other guy thinks that and this. You're not learning anything.

Oh and not only the things you say, But you've on multiple occasions also conflated Moral Nihilism wrongly as well.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ClydeLee's post
28-05-2015, 08:44 AM
RE: Atheism and morality
(28-05-2015 06:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-05-2015 06:03 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  That's my take on it.

If the gist of my summary is correct, I don't see how the problem of objectivity only relates to mathematics, rather than all disciplines often associated with being objective. Or what the contextual problems associated with numbers, don't apply to pretty much every word in the english dictionary. If the argument here is correct, it doesn't seem to be merely claiming that objectivity doesn't exists in mathematics, but that objectivity doesn't exist at all. It all seems to be an argument for factual relativism, and not merely mathematical or moral relativism.

How, precisely, do you suppose you'd measure objectivity using the subjective perceptions of the human mind?

The closest we can come to it is the scientific method, where we use multiple observations in order to winnow the chaff from the wheat. And as heliocentrism and flat earthers demonstrate, even then subjectivism can raise its head.

As for the contextual issues with language, that's actually what makes language such a powerful tool: it can address many different contexts using the same toolbox, so long as one uses it with the inderstanding that context informs meaning. It's no accident that you bring up the comparison, whether you realize it or not, because mathematics is also a language used to describe our universe, only using different terms and more arcane symbology.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: