Atheism and the Conversion Factors
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26-08-2014, 05:08 AM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
Was never indoctrinated in the first place but once I really started looking into Christianity, the bible and jesus, it was clear it was all a poorly told story. Upon digging deeper its lies and the scientific truth of our world, made Christianity and all religions look silly and outdated.
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28-08-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
Why am I an Atheist?

How could I not be?
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28-08-2014, 02:14 PM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
This may sound really silly, I think my faith in god dissipated when I was young, god didn't have the dinosaurs in the bible and I wanted to be an archeologist and knew they existed there was evidence they were here. We were to supposed to just believe in god just because, didn't makes sense even when I was young. Then I found Art History, was fascinated with early civilizations and cultures -- wasn't there supposed to only be one god? Still no sense made but got hooked into Paganism. Yet again, love mythology and stories of fantasy but no god has given proof enough for me to say AhHa! there you are. So I like science and evolution and knowing things that can be proven. I still enjoy learning about religions and their history and culture there's nothing that has proved for me to put any stock in a god, when there is, we'll examine the evidence at that point I'll stick with the dinosaurs.

I tend to ask random questions, sometime stupid ones, but I can almost guarantee I'm smarter for asking than not.
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15-09-2014, 06:22 PM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
Back to Einstein and the laws of physics vs the 2nd laws of thermodynamics. What is the difference? To know the difference you simply open a physic book. The most striking is the precision and cleanest of mathematic equations. This is opposit from nature and the 2nd law of thermodynamics which is once something breaks it will continue to break over time. In other words disorders increase over time. For example a rock that falls off a hill top will break and continue to break over time until nothing is left except
empty space. Thus empty space is the maximum disorders/chaos there is. How about yours clean
room/bed room? It too will suffer the same result after millions of years. Everything else will continue to breakdown in trillions and trillions of years into nothingness. But nothing means something in a quantum system. Empty space/nothing is actually full of particles that pop in and out of existence. They're just too fast to cause us damage. I would also describe nature as one's whose always try to maximize disorders. That's means she is imperfect, defective, full of contamination, dirty/dusty, accidentall, careless, and full of surprises. When we think of nature and entropy we should think of them as some quantum system hidden inside a 3D valume or inside a sphere. In other words you can't see it. Well you could if you understand what is quantum gravity is. Hint a 10 Dimensions quantum gravity. But wait I have to go back to Einstein and the laws of physics. Beside the cleanest and mathematic precision, the laws of physic can work forward and backward ,a kind of time reversal operation. In other words something is equals to something and vice versa. If you know the initial states you will guarantee to know the final states. If you know the final states you are guaranteed to know the initial states. If you know the cause you are guaranteed to know the effect. If you know the effect you are guaranteed to know the cause. Unfortunately this kind of logic and deterministic equations are everywhere in Newtonian physics, Relativity physics, Quantum physics, and even String physics.
Well what is wrong here? Where is the gap in physic here? The gap is in the middle. Between the initial AND the final. Between the cause AND the effect. Between the past AND future. In order to close this gap we need to turn the AND into the OR. That is from theory/thought experiment into real experiment. We need to move to the middle state or the present state.
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15-09-2014, 07:56 PM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
(15-09-2014 06:22 PM)5senses Wrote:  Between the initial AND the final. Between the cause AND the effect. Between the past AND future.

Falls the Shadow.




There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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02-10-2014, 06:25 PM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
Is there a circular logic in physic? Sure there is. It's more complex than the circular logic that most religious people use to prove the existence of god here. The circular logic goes like this; theory plus theory equal a bigger. That is Relativity theory plus Quantum theory equals String theory. Notice that theories does not exist beyond the 4 Dimensions brain world. That is physics and the laws of physic does not exist beyond the 4 Dimensions brain world. It is predictable and deterministic. Take for example the concept of cause and effect or causality. The idea that if we know the past we are guaranteed to know the future. All theories will give the correct answer after the experiment is done but if and only if you prepared the experiment correctly. What is the catch here? The catch is that if a person that doesn't know physic can not prepared the experiment correctly. Well he/she could but it will take a long time to get the job done do to try and error. We can also say that such person actions is more related to nature than those of a physicist. In other words nature will tax in the form of entropy to those that doesn't know what they are doing. Sometimes she can even tax them to death before they even compete the job. In death does one become PART OF NATURE. What is remaining of the dead is a rapid break down just like a rock that falls off a hill top.
So what all the physic about? Mainly to suppress disorders. No life forms can completely stop disorders. We can only slow it down. This is what Einstein and the laws of physic is about. From the GPS to the twins paradox.
Atheism and the conversion factors will continue. ..
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02-10-2014, 06:49 PM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
This looks good.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Is there a circular logic in physic?

No.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Sure there is.

Didn't you just hear me?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  It's more complex than the circular logic that most religious people use to prove the existence of god here.

Physics is certainly more complex than the "if A then A; A therefore A" structure that constitues religious "logic"... But it's also not circular. Just where are you going with this?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  The circular logic goes like this; theory plus theory equal a bigger. That is Relativity theory plus Quantum theory equals String theory.

No. That is not the case.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Notice that theories does not exist beyond the 4 Dimensions brain world. That is physics and the laws of physic does not exist beyond the 4 Dimensions brain world.

I do appreciate the random Capitalisation of selected Words. Most string theories actually do contain more than four dimensions, and since you literally just mentioned string theory, this only leads me to believe you don't actually know what those words mean.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  It is predictable and deterministic. Take for example the concept of cause and effect or causality. The idea that if we know the past we are guaranteed to know the future.

That is not what causality means.
That is not what deterministic means.

Reality is probabilistic.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  All theories will give the correct answer after the experiment is done but if and only if you prepared the experiment correctly. What is the catch here?

That is not how theory and experiment work.

A theory is derived from observation under certain conditions, generalised to broader conditions, and then tested against them.

An incorrectly prepared experiment does not represent valid conditions. I can't study oxygen by looking at nitrogen. Are you going somewhere with this?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  The catch is that if a person that doesn't know physic can not prepared the experiment correctly. Well he/she could but it will take a long time to get the job done do to try and error.

In principle anyone can derive all of modern science on their own, from the foundations right to quantum field theory. Such would be an incredibly tedious and pointless affair.

Though you seem fixated on physics, it is worth noting that bumbling ignorance is not likely to produce useful results in any other field either.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  We can also say that such person actions is more related to nature than those of a physicist.

You can say that, at least.

I wouldn't, but that's only because it appears to be meaningless.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  In other words nature will tax in the form of entropy to those that doesn't know what they are doing.

Entropy is a physical characteristic of interaction. If you can demonstrate a reliable isentropic process, there's a Nobel prize in it for you.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Sometimes she can even tax them to death before they even compete the job. In death does one become PART OF NATURE.

I honestly have no idea where you're going with this. Surely life is also "natural"?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  What is remaining of the dead is a rapid break down just like a rock that falls off a hill top.

In other words, energy can change forms. So what?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  So what all the physic about? Mainly to suppress disorders. No life forms can completely stop disorders. We can only slow it down.

We cannot, in fact, do any such thing, as we are bound by the same physical laws as the rest of reality.

Theoretical science is about understanding, no more or less.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  This is what Einstein and the laws of physic is about. From the GPS to the twins paradox.

Einstein most assuredly never said anything remotely like that.

The "paradox" is no such thing.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Atheism and the conversion factors will continue. ..

Is... is that it?

That's the end?

Yeah, I've still got nothing. Anyone else know what captain crazypants here was trying to say?

... this is my signature!
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20-10-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
(02-10-2014 06:49 PM)cjlr Wrote:  This looks good.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Is there a circular logic in physic?

No.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Sure there is.

Didn't you just hear me?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  It's more complex than the circular logic that most religious people use to prove the existence of god here.

Physics is certainly more complex than the "if A then A; A therefore A" structure that constitues religious "logic"... But it's also not circular. Just where are you going with this?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  The circular logic goes like this; theory plus theory equal a bigger. That is Relativity theory plus Quantum theory equals String theory.

No. That is not the case.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Notice that theories does not exist beyond the 4 Dimensions brain world. That is physics and the laws of physic does not exist beyond the 4 Dimensions brain world.

I do appreciate the random Capitalisation of selected Words. Most string theories actually do contain more than four dimensions, and since you literally just mentioned string theory, this only leads me to believe you don't actually know what those words mean.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  It is predictable and deterministic. Take for example the concept of cause and effect or causality. The idea that if we know the past we are guaranteed to know the future.

That is not what causality means.
That is not what deterministic means.

Reality is probabilistic.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  All theories will give the correct answer after the experiment is done but if and only if you prepared the experiment correctly. What is the catch here?

That is not how theory and experiment work.

A theory is derived from observation under certain conditions, generalised to broader conditions, and then tested against them.

An incorrectly prepared experiment does not represent valid conditions. I can't study oxygen by looking at nitrogen. Are you going somewhere with this?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  The catch is that if a person that doesn't know physic can not prepared the experiment correctly. Well he/she could but it will take a long time to get the job done do to try and error.

In principle anyone can derive all of modern science on their own, from the foundations right to quantum field theory. Such would be an incredibly tedious and pointless affair.

Though you seem fixated on physics, it is worth noting that bumbling ignorance is not likely to produce useful results in any other field either.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  We can also say that such person actions is more related to nature than those of a physicist.

You can say that, at least.

I wouldn't, but that's only because it appears to be meaningless.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  In other words nature will tax in the form of entropy to those that doesn't know what they are doing.

Entropy is a physical characteristic of interaction. If you can demonstrate a reliable isentropic process, there's a Nobel prize in it for you.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Sometimes she can even tax them to death before they even compete the job. In death does one become PART OF NATURE.

I honestly have no idea where you're going with this. Surely life is also "natural"?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  What is remaining of the dead is a rapid break down just like a rock that falls off a hill top.

In other words, energy can change forms. So what?

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  So what all the physic about? Mainly to suppress disorders. No life forms can completely stop disorders. We can only slow it down.

We cannot, in fact, do any such thing, as we are bound by the same physical laws as the rest of reality.

Theoretical science is about understanding, no more or less.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  This is what Einstein and the laws of physic is about. From the GPS to the twins paradox.

Einstein most assuredly never said anything remotely like that.

The "paradox" is no such thing.

(02-10-2014 06:25 PM)5senses Wrote:  Atheism and the conversion factors will continue. ..

Is... is that it?

That's the end?

Yeah, I've still got nothing. Anyone else know what captain crazypants here was trying to say?
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20-10-2014, 02:53 PM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
(02-10-2014 06:49 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Anyone else know what captain crazypants here was trying to say?

No idea but it's clear that they really do not understand what they think they understand.

Here are some examples extracted from the word salad like Haikus extracted from alphabet soup ...


(15-09-2014 06:22 PM)5senses Wrote:  the 2nd law of thermodynamics which is once something breaks it will continue to break over time. ...until nothing is left except
empty space. Thus empty space is the maximum disorders/chaos there is.


(15-09-2014 06:22 PM)5senses Wrote:  the laws of physic can work forward and backward ,a kind of time reversal operation.

Except for the aforementioned 2nd law of thermodynamics ...


(15-09-2014 06:22 PM)5senses Wrote:  If you know the initial states you will guarantee to know the final states. If you know the final states you are guaranteed to know the initial states.

Except for quantum mechanics ...
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20-10-2014, 06:02 PM
RE: Atheism and the Conversion Factors
Da fuq? That is word salad in physics terms. I understand physics well enough, and this looks ridiculous.

Quote:That is Relativity theory plus Quantum theory equals String theory.

Yeah no. That's not what string theory is or how it works.

Quote:That is physics and the laws of physic does not exist beyond the 4 Dimensions brain world. It is predictable and deterministic. Take for example the concept of cause and effect or causality. The idea that if we know the past we are guaranteed to know the future.

Da fuq is this shit? No. From what I understand of quantum physics cause and effect isn't how things actually work. It's all about probability. Common sense is just a short cut since some things are very very probable or very improbable.

Quote:All theories will give the correct answer after the experiment is done but if and only if you prepared the experiment correctly.


No they won't. Old theories have been tossed out after an experiment proved them faulty.

This is as far as I got. This looks like gibberish and word salad. If you want coherent discussion you should consider using paragraphs.

Quote:In principle anyone can derive all of modern science on their own, from the foundations right to quantum field theory. Such would be an incredibly tedious and pointless affair.

I dunno. My physics class had us derive the equations of gravity, the speed of light, the charge of an electron, and a lot else. I found it helpful in understanding the concepts. Granted it was a five day a week class with a lab one afternoon.
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