Atheism and the afterlife.
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13-09-2012, 01:27 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
(13-09-2012 06:23 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(09-09-2012 03:16 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  ...however unlikely YOU believe it is.

Doesn't this ^

(09-09-2012 03:16 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Thoughts? Do any of the Atheists here ascribe to the idea of a afterlife?

contradict this ^ ?

I meant "YOU" to be a subset of readers. Maybe I should've italicized instead of capitalized...oh well.

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13-09-2012, 01:29 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
(13-09-2012 01:27 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(13-09-2012 06:23 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Doesn't this ^


contradict this ^ ?

I meant "YOU" to be a subset of readers. Maybe I should've italicized instead of capitalized...oh well.

Makes it look like you already made a decision. :/

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13-09-2012, 03:21 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
(13-09-2012 12:55 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(13-09-2012 12:50 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Chas nailed it. No need to respond.Thumbsup

So yer a dualist. Consider

We don't like yer kind round heah.

When Chas said he wasn't a dualist, that was part of the nailing it. So...you made me respond anyway....

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13-09-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
(13-09-2012 01:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(13-09-2012 09:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  I disagree. One has to be a dualist (mind/body), but not necessarily a theist or deist.

The rub is that there is no evidence of any mechanism for dualism, therefore the rational conclusion is that it is not the case.


Note: No gods were harmed in the making of this argument.

The only explanation I have seen for any belief in an afterlife requires a belief in some form of the supernatural. This is not rational or reasonable thinking.

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13-09-2012, 05:02 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
You are welcome to suspend rationality, but don't get upset if I call you out on your supernatural bullshit.

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13-09-2012, 05:50 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
(13-09-2012 03:21 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(13-09-2012 12:55 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  So yer a dualist. Consider

We don't like yer kind round heah.

When Chas said he wasn't a dualist, that was part of the nailing it. So...you made me respond anyway....

Fuckin' Cantor has a way of doing that. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
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Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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13-09-2012, 05:56 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
(13-09-2012 05:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-09-2012 03:21 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  When Chas said he wasn't a dualist, that was part of the nailing it. So...you made me respond anyway....

Fuckin' Cantor has a way of doing that. Wink

He's just being sumo and shit.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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13-09-2012, 08:31 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
(12-09-2012 06:26 PM)Dom Wrote:  Like I always say, we don't know shit.

We know what we can perceive and measure, that's it.

We can measure a lot of things we didn't use to be able to measure now, and we will find more measurable things in the future.

And then we likely still won't know shit.

I very strongly doubt that there is any type of consciousness after death.

I do think that everything that can be recycled, will be recycled in whatever fashion, whether we can perceive or measure it or not.

And recycling doesn't mean at all it is in a form that corresponds to the previous form. Buried bodies turn into insect droppings and nutrients for plants...

If there is anything other than the body, it would likely also be recycled into something totally different.

If you think we are some sort of cocoon, and a beautiful butterfly emerges when we die, does the butterfly know it was a cocoon? Does it know about the caterpillar? It can see both, but can it identify?

In any case, we don't know shit but I certainly don't think that our present consciousness would carry over to the other side, if there were another side.

If our present consciousness was to continue, what specific part would that be?
Or, from a reincarnationist perspective, what parts (from other beings) of the part that allegedly inhabits 'our personal being' in some strange way?
Even at the secular level the consciousness of babies, infants, children, adolescents, adults ,are in a change or flux, with only dim memories of far distant past events.
Issues of any, even semi personal continuum, beyond our death, if not remote, appears beyond our evolved intellects and unworthy of serious debate.

As for transmutation into dung beetles,gentle breezes, ripples on babbling brooks, or glints in erotic eyes......such may fascinate some Hindus and buddhists, but to be seems more aligned to chaos theory, with about the same appeal.
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13-09-2012, 09:05 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
(13-09-2012 08:31 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 06:26 PM)Dom Wrote:  Like I always say, we don't know shit.

We know what we can perceive and measure, that's it.

We can measure a lot of things we didn't use to be able to measure now, and we will find more measurable things in the future.

And then we likely still won't know shit.

I very strongly doubt that there is any type of consciousness after death.

I do think that everything that can be recycled, will be recycled in whatever fashion, whether we can perceive or measure it or not.

And recycling doesn't mean at all it is in a form that corresponds to the previous form. Buried bodies turn into insect droppings and nutrients for plants...

If there is anything other than the body, it would likely also be recycled into something totally different.

If you think we are some sort of cocoon, and a beautiful butterfly emerges when we die, does the butterfly know it was a cocoon? Does it know about the caterpillar? It can see both, but can it identify?

In any case, we don't know shit but I certainly don't think that our present consciousness would carry over to the other side, if there were another side.

If our present consciousness was to continue, what specific part would that be?
Or, from a reincarnationist perspective, what parts (from other beings) of the part that allegedly inhabits 'our personal being' in some strange way?
Even at the secular level the consciousness of babies, infants, children, adolescents, adults ,are in a change or flux, with only dim memories of far distant past events.
Issues of any, even semi personal continuum, beyond our death, if not remote, appears beyond our evolved intellects and unworthy of serious debate.

As for transmutation into dung beetles,gentle breezes, ripples on babbling brooks, or glints in erotic eyes......such may fascinate some Hindus and buddhists, but to be seems more aligned to chaos theory, with about the same appeal.

There are a lot of "problems" with reincarnation. Even if we had strong evidence to support the idea that we have a soul, and that it continued to be recycled into other things. One of the first problems is, if we be reincarnated into other beings, would it have to be conscious? Then, are we limited to beings on our own planet or could we be reincarnated into aliens? If so why has so few, if any people claimed to have memories from past lives as aliens? If we are limited to human forms then how do you explain our population going up? Are new souls ever created? If so, how, and from what? This of course disproves nothing, but I think it makes it more unlikely. The more complex the solution, the more unlikely it becomes, and besides, there is no hard facts to support this. I am perplexed at certain 'cases' though. One thing is for sure, we have a long way to go before we can prove anything. Perhaps the universes' laws prevents us from knowing...How insignificant we all are...

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13-09-2012, 11:24 PM
RE: Atheism and the afterlife.
I don't believe in an afterlife. I am willing to admit that anything is possible. I can say for sure that nobody truly knows anything. Religions in my opinion are all wrong. I don't see how my actions in this life can possible have anything to do with what happens after I die. My actions may prematurely cause my death. If there is a god then anything I do wrong squarely rests on he/she/it's shoulders for designing me this way. If I make a machine that is designed to walk until it hits a wall and instead of it hitting a wall it falls off a table, is it the machines fault for walking off the table I put it on? No. So, could there be a god and an afterlife? Yes there very well could. Does anyone know for sure anything about it? No, nobody has gone and come back to my satisfaction to be able to claim to know anything at all.
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