Atheism for some?
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28-11-2015, 04:13 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 04:09 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 04:08 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN​NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO​OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
See?

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28-11-2015, 04:58 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 03:37 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yeah, that's all good and great. My point is that I have observed seemingly countless cases of individuals here with an utter hatred for God and the general concept there of. This, in it's self negates atheism.

Any direct recoloections of threads you can recall to find some quotes of exact prove of this? Or like your faith, is it just something that you have in your head and it doesn't need any of that evidence.

Maybe not dlj, but I was intending to say it doesn't mean you weren't an atheist. It's just a stupid argument to begin with that is based on the concept not of "real" as in if you're not that you AREN'T one, but that you aren't of a purposefully driven point.

Like the hardcore music fan would say, if you're a fan of the bands Hits songs on the radio and that is all you've heard. You're not a "REAL" fan of them. because you haven't listened to their albums. Yet you are a fan of them, just not via a different more investigated and thought out way.

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28-11-2015, 05:54 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
Popsicle, if you were truly an atheist then you didn't believe in God's existence.

Do you hate purple unicorns?

Do you hate faeries?

Do you hate the little green goblin that steals your socks?

I mean, I suppose it's not impossible, depending on how insane you are, but I'd find it very hard to hate something that I did not believe existed.

Therefore I suspect that all along, you have been using an incorrect definition of the word 'atheist' - I think that *you* think that it means 'One who hates God', and indeed, from what I can recall of your posts you seem to assume that's what we all do, but in *fact* it means (ignoring technicalities such as lack of faith versus faith in lack) 'One who disbelieves the existence of God'.

Unless this is you trolling with some kind of bullshit because you'd like to be able to say that those of us who are ex-Christian were never real Christians?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-11-2015, 06:16 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
Sure, you were an atheist. And sure, now you're a believer. Both positions in your case driven primarily by emotion rather than thought. I'm not going to attack how genuinely you have held your past or present beliefs. I'll leave that kind of nastiness to you.

It's possible to have anger and contempt and other emotional reactions, in addition to intellectual critiques, to a concept, for example, racism or religion. That's because it is perfectly appropriate to be angry at the atrocities committed by humans in the name of said concepts.
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28-11-2015, 06:21 AM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2015 08:25 AM by unfogged.)
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 01:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I used to not only vehemently not believe in God, but also held a very strong contempt for God simultaneously. I recall cursing God out of some mix of hatred and disbelief.

I find those statements to be incoherent. I do not understand how you can hate something that you do not believe exists. I can have contempt for the idea of believing something without evidence and I can despise the actions believers undertake based on their belief in a god but I can't hate a god that I don't think exists. It's like hating Darth Vader or the borg any other fictional character -- in a discussion about Star Trek I can express the idea that the borg are evil but in real life I don't hate them in any meaningful sense of the word.

I don't know if you were ever an atheist or not but if you thought that there was an actual god to be hated then you weren't, by definition.

ETA: The above was written after misreading the next part of your post (see new post below); I'm leaving it as a response to the sentences quoted because others do say things like that but I see that you did not intend to make that claim.

(28-11-2015 03:37 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yeah, that's all good and great. My point is that I have observed seemingly countless cases of individuals here with an utter hatred for God and the general concept there of. This, in it's self negates atheism.

I suspect that what you've observed is people who hate religion and how much harm religious belief causes. I don't hate what I don't believe exists; I hate what people do in the name of their belief. Substitute "don't believe" for "ain't afraid" in this...




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28-11-2015, 07:19 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 01:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So another individual tried to say I was never an atheist again. I found it offensive again, somehow. Was thinking; I used to not only vehemently not believe in God, but also held a very strong contempt for God simultaneously. I recall cursing God out of some mix of hatred and disbelief. Thinking or recollecting this brought me to the realization that I indeed must have never been a true atheist, as one cannot hold any emotion towards a thing that they don't believe in. So although I was an evolutionist for the majority of my life thus far, I cannot claim that I was a real atheist because of my contempt or hatred towards God.

I know many here seem to hate God and the mere possibility of us being created from a source. But logic states that you cannot have any regard towards something you don't think is even real. My logic anyway.

Opinions?

Peace

That certainly makes me question whether you ever actually understood the theory of evolution. Consider

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28-11-2015, 07:37 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
I don't hate God. He is a character in a book. He's not my favorite character in the book since he does a lot of horrendous things. I hate religion. I hate that it hurts people. I hate that religion uses a book of fairy tales and fear to get people to behave the way other people want them to. I hate that religion is oppressive. I hate that people live their lives based on a book of fairy tales instead of doing what makes them happy. I hate that religion stands in the way of science. I hate that it encourages mindless thinking. I hate that it shuns nonbelievers. I hate that it tries to dissuade people from loving who they want to love. I hate that religion is anti-sex. I hate that people have sacrificed people and animals in the name of religion. I hate that religion creates delusional thinking. I hate that people have done horrendous things to others in the name of religion.

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28-11-2015, 08:18 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 01:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Thinking or recollecting this brought me to the realization that I indeed must have never been a true atheist, as one cannot hold any emotion towards a thing that they don't believe in. So although I was an evolutionist for the majority of my life thus far, I cannot claim that I was a real atheist because of my contempt or hatred towards God.

I just re-read the post and realized that I initially misread that portion of it. Somehow I read it as saying that you were an atheist even though you believed that a god existed and hated it. I'm not sure how I managed that since it is pretty plain that you are saying the opposite.

I generally agree with the above with the caveat that you can have an emotional reaction to the concept of a thing you don't believe exists and you can determine how you would feel IF it existed and had the ascribed properties. That's where many theists misunderstand atheists when we say things like the Christian god is an evil monster. We mean it like we mean that Darth Vader is evil, not that we think the god actually exists.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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28-11-2015, 09:24 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 04:12 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 04:07 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yeah one is the perception of an acknowledged believer, and the other is the perception of one in denial.

I'll rephrase the question ...

Do you understand the difference between a god and the concept of a god?
I do, but I would still love to hear your version.
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28-11-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 05:54 AM)morondog Wrote:  Popsicle, if you were truly an atheist then you didn't believe in God's existence.

Do you hate purple unicorns?

Do you hate faeries?

Do you hate the little green goblin that steals your socks?

I mean, I suppose it's not impossible, depending on how insane you are, but I'd find it very hard to hate something that I did not believe existed.

Therefore I suspect that all along, you have been using an incorrect definition of the word 'atheist' - I think that *you* think that it means 'One who hates God', and indeed, from what I can recall of your posts you seem to assume that's what we all do, but in *fact* it means (ignoring technicalities such as lack of faith versus faith in lack) 'One who disbelieves the existence of God'.

Unless this is you trolling with some kind of bullshit because you'd like to be able to say that those of us who are ex-Christian were never real Christians?
That was the point I was making. And no, it is obvious that while some hold contempt for God there are others that simply don't believe without bias, simply due to compelling evidence. It is those whom I hold some sort of respect and whom are indeed a more leveled, true atheist.
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