Atheism for some?
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28-11-2015, 10:01 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 09:47 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 09:35 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Nah. I asked first.

A few of the above posts have made the distinction but your reply to the dog, above, indicates that you don't quite get it yet.

Please, lemme know your ideas on this. My breath is baited.

Thanks.
God, as in not a concept but the creative force responsible for all existence on some level, is what a believer would think.

The concept of God, a human construct bases on human knowledge, or the lack there of would be a phrase for a sceptic or disbeliever bent on an ideal that God was a creation of man, and not visa versa.

That's close enough.

You narrow down the definition of god to a deistic description rather than an extended theistic description and you could have stopped after "... lack thereof" and it would have been more accurate... but let's go with that.

So, yes, I agree. Someone who hates or is angry with god (the first definition) can not be an atheist. One has to believe in that god to be angry with it.

As others have explained, above, regarding the 'concept of god', the anger is directed to what is done due to the associated beliefs (regarding slavery, anti-homosexuality etc.) and subsequent actions (e.g. throwing homosexuals from high buildings) because of the belief in the god-model.

There is unlikely to be 'hatred' towards the erroneous model itself because ... see earlier comments about Darth Vader etc.

Cheers.

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28-11-2015, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2015 10:34 AM by Commonsensei.)
RE: Atheism for some?
Quote:So another individual tried to say I was never an atheist again. I found it offensive again, somehow. Was thinking; I used to not only vehemently not believe in God, but also held a very strong contempt for God simultaneously. I recall cursing God out of some mix of hatred and disbelief. Thinking or recollecting this brought me to the realization that I indeed must have never been a true atheist, as one cannot hold any emotion towards a thing that they don't believe in. So although I was an evolutionist for the majority of my life thus far, I cannot claim that I was a real atheist because of my contempt or hatred towards God.

[Image: stock-photo-5901416-young-man-sitting-on...atrist.jpg]

Unlike the rest of the group I feel this maybe a real break through for you. A Baby step, but a step in the right direction.

Quote:I know many here seem to hate God and the mere possibility of us being created from a source. But logic states that you cannot have any regard towards something you don't think is even real. My logic anyway.

Even when I was a believer I never HATED God. I got frustrated at the times because because I felt that the message I thought I was trying to be shown wasn't clear.

Now as an Atheist I have no anger or frustration towards a god or gods. Because I haven't been demonstrated that these types of things can exist. The feelings that stir up around the subject are the same as if one was talking about Darth Vader.

What a monster right?

Destroys entire planets because he wants to make a point. Goes around force chocking people that speaking out against him. Tortures his son...and daughter. We both sit here and talk and shout about about how terrible Darth Vader is and still have an understanding that Darth Vader dose not exsist.

We can have arguments over how Darth Vader was a good guy. Bringing balance to the force. Killing the Emperor. Wanting to have his Son be by his side. But at the same time KNOWING the Force, the Emperor, and the relationships are not real.

The problem arises when these boarders between fiction and reality are not understood.

As we see it. You Believe Darth Vader is real. You believe the Force controls the universe. You believe Darth Vader has and the ability to bring balance to the force.

Now obviously (hopefully) i'm using Darth Vader as a metaphor. Hopefully you could see the frustration one would have if you ran into a person that believed the Star Wars universe was real. Or the Darth Vader was the hero. We can have great disdain Darth Vader, or Voldemort, or the Wicked Witch. Without thinking they are real. We can break down their characters and personality, and actions. We can critic the story. But it wouldn't change the fact that these event's never happened or existed.

That is we're you're seeing the anger from. From the point that many Atheist are trying to make. We're trying to tell you the stance of why Darth Vader is bad, at the same time demonstrate why the star wars universe doesn't exist. If a person was coming from the stance the Star Wars Galaxy was real We would come at it the same way breaking down the elements of the characters, the universes that has been created in the story, explaining how elements of the story wouldn't work in reality.

This is the stance people on this side of the fence have. We're arguing that God is not a good guy in the story. We're attempting to break down story, so you can compare them to the reality around us. So that the brain washing process can be reversed.

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28-11-2015, 11:24 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 10:01 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 09:47 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  God, as in not a concept but the creative force responsible for all existence on some level, is what a believer would think.

The concept of God, a human construct bases on human knowledge, or the lack there of would be a phrase for a sceptic or disbeliever bent on an ideal that God was a creation of man, and not visa versa.

That's close enough.

You narrow down the definition of god to a deistic description rather than an extended theistic description and you could have stopped after "... lack thereof" and it would have been more accurate... but let's go with that.

So, yes, I agree. Someone who hates or is angry with god (the first definition) can not be an atheist. One has to believe in that god to be angry with it.

As others have explained, above, regarding the 'concept of god', the anger is directed to what is done due to the associated beliefs (regarding slavery, anti-homosexuality etc.) and subsequent actions (e.g. throwing homosexuals from high buildings) because of the belief in the god-model.

There is unlikely to be 'hatred' towards the erroneous model itself because ... see earlier comments about Darth Vader etc.

Cheers.
All here still seem to pretend that there are none of this forum whom show literal hatred towards God yet claim atheism as opposed to lucifarianism or satanism. The hatred in itself is an indicator, even if not perceived by the hater. That's all. Surely some, most even, here, indeed hate the acts of those manipulated by faulty doctrine, and are atheists.
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28-11-2015, 11:27 AM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 10:28 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  
Quote:So another individual tried to say I was never an atheist again. I found it offensive again, somehow. Was thinking; I used to not only vehemently not believe in God, but also held a very strong contempt for God simultaneously. I recall cursing God out of some mix of hatred and disbelief. Thinking or recollecting this brought me to the realization that I indeed must have never been a true atheist, as one cannot hold any emotion towards a thing that they don't believe in. So although I was an evolutionist for the majority of my life thus far, I cannot claim that I was a real atheist because of my contempt or hatred towards God.

[Image: stock-photo-5901416-young-man-sitting-on...atrist.jpg]

Unlike the rest of the group I feel this maybe a real break through for you. A Baby step, but a step in the right direction.

Quote:I know many here seem to hate God and the mere possibility of us being created from a source. But logic states that you cannot have any regard towards something you don't think is even real. My logic anyway.

Even when I was a believer I never HATED God. I got frustrated at the times because because I felt that the message I thought I was trying to be shown wasn't clear.

Now as an Atheist I have no anger or frustration towards a god or gods. Because I haven't been demonstrated that these types of things can exist. The feelings that stir up around the subject are the same as if one was talking about Darth Vader.

What a monster right?

Destroys entire planets because he wants to make a point. Goes around force chocking people that speaking out against him. Tortures his son...and daughter. We both sit here and talk and shout about about how terrible Darth Vader is and still have an understanding that Darth Vader dose not exsist.

We can have arguments over how Darth Vader was a good guy. Bringing balance to the force. Killing the Emperor. Wanting to have his Son be by his side. But at the same time KNOWING the Force, the Emperor, and the relationships are not real.

The problem arises when these boarders between fiction and reality are not understood.

As we see it. You Believe Darth Vader is real. You believe the Force controls the universe. You believe Darth Vader has and the ability to bring balance to the force.

Now obviously (hopefully) i'm using Darth Vader as a metaphor. Hopefully you could see the frustration one would have if you ran into a person that believed the Star Wars universe was real. Or the Darth Vader was the hero. We can have great disdain Darth Vader, or Voldemort, or the Wicked Witch. Without thinking they are real. We can break down their characters and personality, and actions. We can critic the story. But it wouldn't change the fact that these event's never happened or existed.

That is we're you're seeing the anger from. From the point that many Atheist are trying to make. We're trying to tell you the stance of why Darth Vader is bad, at the same time demonstrate why the star wars universe doesn't exist. If a person was coming from the stance the Star Wars Galaxy was real We would come at it the same way breaking down the elements of the characters, the universes that has been created in the story, explaining how elements of the story wouldn't work in reality.

This is the stance people on this side of the fence have. We're arguing that God is not a good guy in the story. We're attempting to break down story, so you can compare them to the reality around us. So that the brain washing process can be reversed.
You completely missed the entire point of my post. I do understand frustration stemming from not being able to teach someone something that seems so very basic and correct to. you. Just not what I was talking about.
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28-11-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 11:24 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  All here still seem to pretend that there are none of this forum whom show literal hatred towards God yet claim atheism as opposed to lucifarianism or satanism. The hatred in itself is an indicator, even if not perceived by the hater.

All? I don't know if anybody here claims to be an atheist and yet believes there is a god to hate. If there is then I'd agree that they aren't an atheist by any definition I'd accept. I think that you are still conflating anger over religion and religious indoctrination and ideas with hatred of god.

Quote:That's all. Surely some, most even, here, indeed hate the acts of those manipulated by faulty doctrine, and are atheists.

The acts and the beliefs, yes. That's not the same as hating god.

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28-11-2015, 12:20 PM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2015 08:26 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 11:27 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 10:28 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  [Image: stock-photo-5901416-young-man-sitting-on...atrist.jpg]

Unlike the rest of the group I feel this maybe a real break through for you. A Baby step, but a step in the right direction.


Even when I was a believer I never HATED God. I got frustrated at the times because because I felt that the message I thought I was trying to be shown wasn't clear.

Now as an Atheist I have no anger or frustration towards a god or gods. Because I haven't been demonstrated that these types of things can exist. The feelings that stir up around the subject are the same as if one was talking about Darth Vader.

What a monster right?

Destroys entire planets because he wants to make a point. Goes around force chocking people that speaking out against him. Tortures his son...and daughter. We both sit here and talk and shout about about how terrible Darth Vader is and still have an understanding that Darth Vader dose not exsist.

We can have arguments over how Darth Vader was a good guy. Bringing balance to the force. Killing the Emperor. Wanting to have his Son be by his side. But at the same time KNOWING the Force, the Emperor, and the relationships are not real.

The problem arises when these boarders between fiction and reality are not understood.

As we see it. You Believe Darth Vader is real. You believe the Force controls the universe. You believe Darth Vader has and the ability to bring balance to the force.

Now obviously (hopefully) i'm using Darth Vader as a metaphor. Hopefully you could see the frustration one would have if you ran into a person that believed the Star Wars universe was real. Or the Darth Vader was the hero. We can have great disdain Darth Vader, or Voldemort, or the Wicked Witch. Without thinking they are real. We can break down their characters and personality, and actions. We can critic the story. But it wouldn't change the fact that these event's never happened or existed.

That is we're you're seeing the anger from. From the point that many Atheist are trying to make. We're trying to tell you the stance of why Darth Vader is bad, at the same time demonstrate why the star wars universe doesn't exist. If a person was coming from the stance the Star Wars Galaxy was real We would come at it the same way breaking down the elements of the characters, the universes that has been created in the story, explaining how elements of the story wouldn't work in reality.

This is the stance people on this side of the fence have. We're arguing that God is not a good guy in the story. We're attempting to break down story, so you can compare them to the reality around us. So that the brain washing process can be reversed.
You completely missed the entire point of my post. I do understand frustration stemming from not being able to teach someone something that seems so very basic and correct to. you. Just not what I was talking about.

Commonsensei hit the nail on the head, that you think he missed the point entirely only goes to show how out of touch you are with the obvious.

You might want to read it again and again until it sinks in. Thumbsup

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28-11-2015, 12:24 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 01:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So another individual tried to say I was never an atheist again. I found it offensive again, somehow. Was thinking; I used to not only vehemently not believe in God, but also held a very strong contempt for God simultaneously. I recall cursing God out of some mix of hatred and disbelief. Thinking or recollecting this brought me to the realization that I indeed must have never been a true atheist, as one cannot hold any emotion towards a thing that they don't believe in. So although I was an evolutionist for the majority of my life thus far, I cannot claim that I was a real atheist because of my contempt or hatred towards God.

I know many here seem to hate God and the mere possibility of us being created from a source. But logic states that you cannot have any regard towards something you don't think is even real. My logic anyway.

Opinions?

Peace

Name two people here who hate god. No one can hate a mythical non-entity.
I think you just made all that shit up.
get help, and get a life.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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28-11-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 12:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 01:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So another individual tried to say I was never an atheist again. I found it offensive again, somehow. Was thinking; I used to not only vehemently not believe in God, but also held a very strong contempt for God simultaneously. I recall cursing God out of some mix of hatred and disbelief. Thinking or recollecting this brought me to the realization that I indeed must have never been a true atheist, as one cannot hold any emotion towards a thing that they don't believe in. So although I was an evolutionist for the majority of my life thus far, I cannot claim that I was a real atheist because of my contempt or hatred towards God.

I know many here seem to hate God and the mere possibility of us being created from a source. But logic states that you cannot have any regard towards something you don't think is even real. My logic anyway.

Opinions?

Peace

Name two people here who hate god. No one can hate a mythical non-entity.
I think you just made all that shit up.
get help, and get a life.
Yeah, I made it up jackass.

Spilling my fn guts about the inner most workings of myself in the past and sincerely inquire to others that I know can relate, and you, in your blind arrogance, have the gall to say I'm making it up. Know that I am doing all I can to restrain myself from really flashing out over this.

I will chalk it up to ignorance, and through such, assumption on your part.

I did not make it up.

I hope your ego doesn't veil your perception for the extent of your physical life.

Peace
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28-11-2015, 01:08 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 09:28 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 05:54 AM)morondog Wrote:  Popsicle, if you were truly an atheist then you didn't believe in God's existence.

Do you hate purple unicorns?

Do you hate faeries?

Do you hate the little green goblin that steals your socks?

I mean, I suppose it's not impossible, depending on how insane you are, but I'd find it very hard to hate something that I did not believe existed.

Therefore I suspect that all along, you have been using an incorrect definition of the word 'atheist' - I think that *you* think that it means 'One who hates God', and indeed, from what I can recall of your posts you seem to assume that's what we all do, but in *fact* it means (ignoring technicalities such as lack of faith versus faith in lack) 'One who disbelieves the existence of God'.

Unless this is you trolling with some kind of bullshit because you'd like to be able to say that those of us who are ex-Christian were never real Christians?
That was the point I was making. And no, it is obvious that while some hold contempt for God there are others that simply don't believe without bias, simply due to compelling evidence. It is those whom I hold some sort of respect and whom are indeed a more leveled, true atheist.

No atheist holds contempt for God. Facepalm We hold contempt for the character portrayed in your myth. Facepalm

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-11-2015, 01:10 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 12:57 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 12:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Name two people here who hate god. No one can hate a mythical non-entity.
I think you just made all that shit up.
get help, and get a life.
Yeah, I made it up jackass.

Spilling my fn guts about the inner most workings of myself in the past and sincerely inquire to others that I know can relate, and you, in your blind arrogance, have the gall to say I'm making it up. Know that I am doing all I can to restrain myself from really flashing out over this.

I will chalk it up to ignorance, and through such, assumption on your part.

I did not make it up.

I hope your ego doesn't veil your perception for the extent of your physical life.

Peace

So,....you did just make it up. You were supposed to name two people who hate the gods. You forgot that part.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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