Atheism for some?
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28-11-2015, 02:21 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 02:09 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 01:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So another individual tried to say I was never an atheist again. I found it offensive again, somehow. Was thinking; I used to not only vehemently not believe in God, but also held a very strong contempt for God simultaneously. I recall cursing God out of some mix of hatred and disbelief. Thinking or recollecting this brought me to the realization that I indeed must have never been a true atheist, as one cannot hold any emotion towards a thing that they don't believe in. So although I was an evolutionist for the majority of my life thus far, I cannot claim that I was a real atheist because of my contempt or hatred towards God.

I know many here seem to hate God and the mere possibility of us being created from a source. But logic states that you cannot have any regard towards something you don't think is even real. My logic anyway.

Opinions?

Peace

Sigh

As I have said many times, HUGE difference between being an educated in theology atheist who solidifies their non belief with knowledge, and the run of the mill "I dont believe in god cause....whatever" atheist.

I refuse to believe an educated in theology atheist would throw away all of that knowledge that it is a fabrication based on fiction, forgery and fantasy and suddenly say....yes! I believe!

it is a great story though could use a few more dragons.
No one said anything about theology but you. One can believe there is no God due to lack of understanding and observation of pain and affliction. This can make them hate that thing even though they can't perceive it to believe it. Surely you understand that someone can not believe in God for significant reasons other whatever you where trying to say about theology.
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28-11-2015, 02:25 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 02:21 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No one said anything about theology but you. One can believe there is no God due to lack of understanding and observation of pain and affliction. This can make them hate that thing even though they can't perceive it to believe it. Surely you understand that someone can not believe in God for significant reasons other whatever you where trying to say about theology.

What you wrote is contradictory nonsense.

What part of "not believe" do you not understand? Facepalm

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-11-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 11:27 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 10:28 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  [Image: stock-photo-5901416-young-man-sitting-on...atrist.jpg]

Unlike the rest of the group I feel this maybe a real break through for you. A Baby step, but a step in the right direction.


Even when I was a believer I never HATED God. I got frustrated at the times because because I felt that the message I thought I was trying to be shown wasn't clear.

Now as an Atheist I have no anger or frustration towards a god or gods. Because I haven't been demonstrated that these types of things can exist. The feelings that stir up around the subject are the same as if one was talking about Darth Vader.

What a monster right?

Destroys entire planets because he wants to make a point. Goes around force chocking people that speaking out against him. Tortures his son...and daughter. We both sit here and talk and shout about about how terrible Darth Vader is and still have an understanding that Darth Vader dose not exsist.

We can have arguments over how Darth Vader was a good guy. Bringing balance to the force. Killing the Emperor. Wanting to have his Son be by his side. But at the same time KNOWING the Force, the Emperor, and the relationships are not real.

The problem arises when these boarders between fiction and reality are not understood.

As we see it. You Believe Darth Vader is real. You believe the Force controls the universe. You believe Darth Vader has and the ability to bring balance to the force.

Now obviously (hopefully) i'm using Darth Vader as a metaphor. Hopefully you could see the frustration one would have if you ran into a person that believed the Star Wars universe was real. Or the Darth Vader was the hero. We can have great disdain Darth Vader, or Voldemort, or the Wicked Witch. Without thinking they are real. We can break down their characters and personality, and actions. We can critic the story. But it wouldn't change the fact that these event's never happened or existed.

That is we're you're seeing the anger from. From the point that many Atheist are trying to make. We're trying to tell you the stance of why Darth Vader is bad, at the same time demonstrate why the star wars universe doesn't exist. If a person was coming from the stance the Star Wars Galaxy was real We would come at it the same way breaking down the elements of the characters, the universes that has been created in the story, explaining how elements of the story wouldn't work in reality.

This is the stance people on this side of the fence have. We're arguing that God is not a good guy in the story. We're attempting to break down story, so you can compare them to the reality around us. So that the brain washing process can be reversed.
You completely missed the entire point of my post. I do understand frustration stemming from not being able to teach someone something that seems so very basic and correct to. you. Just not what I was talking about.

Then the structure of your statement was unclear.

I'll explain.

Your opening starts with a personal story. Which leads to your personal epiphany.

You had used to call yourself an atheist, and how you got angry at God, and lead into realization that someone that doesn't have a lack in belief in a god could not call themselves an Atheist.

(28-11-2015 01:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So another individual tried to say I was never an atheist again. I found it offensive again, somehow. Was thinking; I used to not only vehemently not believe in God, but also held a very strong contempt for God simultaneously. I recall cursing God out of some mix of hatred and disbelief. Thinking or recollecting this brought me to the realization that I indeed must have never been a true atheist, as one cannot hold any emotion towards a thing that they don't believe in. So although I was an evolutionist for the majority of my life thus far, I cannot claim that I was a real atheist because of my contempt or hatred towards God.

Your next portion of your statement , you back track a little. You acknowledge that it would appear people hate God or gods. But you question how people could hate something that doesn't exist. This can be interpreted threw, My logic anyway. Saying this is the way I think. So it must be how everyone else should think, or dose think.

(28-11-2015 01:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I know many here seem to hate God and the mere possibility of us being created from a source. But logic states that you cannot have any regard towards something you don't think is even real. My logic anyway.

You made a blanket statement that many here seem to hate god. And a person shouldn't have any concern or think of something if it isn't real. And I respond to how that statement was false. On how "hate" can be conceived threw a fictionalized scenario. Talk to any fan of Star Wars see how in-depth they can get into this fictionalized world. Especially the disdain for I, II, & III. You can project the feeling of detest, or hate on fiction.

Then you ask for opinions.

(28-11-2015 01:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Opinions?

You asked for an opinion and you got one.

I respond with a my opinion on your personal story.

So i'm confused on what your original question was if it wasn't for an opinion on your statement.

Concord

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28-11-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 02:21 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  One can believe there is no God due to lack of understanding and observation of pain and affliction.

One can also not believe there is a god (which, again, is not the same as believing there is no god) based on the lack of credible evidence to support the claim.

Quote:This can make them hate that thing even though they can't perceive it to believe it.

No, it can make them hate what others do in the name of their unfounded belief. It can make them think that the character of the god as described by others would be evil if it really existed. That is not the same thing as hating the god; it doesn't make sense to hate fictional characters.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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28-11-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 01:33 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You forget that I was literally saved and shown without any prior doctrine, worship, belief, or knowledge, or acceptance of God in any perceivable form.

Do you have any evidence for that claim? If not, why would you think anybody would see it as anything other than your imagination?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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28-11-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
You're rambling Pops Rolleyes

Who cares that some atheists who may or may not exist (since we've only so far got your word for it) may hate a God whom they believe doesn't exist? What would that prove?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-11-2015, 03:34 PM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2015 03:39 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 03:37 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yeah, that's all good and great. My point is that I have observed seemingly countless cases of individuals here with an utter hatred for God and the general concept there of. This, in it's self negates atheism.

I've got no beef with god,I don't hate it anymore than I hate a character in any book.

I do have issue with people who insist that god is real because a book says so. Who go on and on about they believe it cares about them, because they lost their car keys or a medical test came back negative. I think it's rather shameful. Especially those to claim to "just know it's true" because of their own feelings they always chalk up to a personal revelation. Yet if a Care Bear revealed themselves to be real to another person, their sanity would be questioned.

To me it's like saying because there's a book about a hobbit they must be real. Or because the Iliad spoke of Zeus, he must be real and it's wrong not to believe.

All deities seem to have one thing in common all have had men profess their god is all powerful, yet completely impotent do actually do anything of any import.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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28-11-2015, 03:35 PM
RE: Atheism for some?



Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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28-11-2015, 04:50 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 03:14 PM)morondog Wrote:  You're rambling Pops Rolleyes

Who cares that some atheists who may or may not exist (since we've only so far got your word for it) may hate a God whom they believe doesn't exist? What would that prove?
Doesn't prove too much really. Just an exercise in logic.
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28-11-2015, 04:52 PM
RE: Atheism for some?
(28-11-2015 04:50 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 03:14 PM)morondog Wrote:  You're rambling Pops Rolleyes

Who cares that some atheists who may or may not exist (since we've only so far got your word for it) may hate a God whom they believe doesn't exist? What would that prove?
Doesn't prove too much really. Just an exercise in logic.

I don't see your logic. Can you explain it?


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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