Atheism has less tolerance than theism
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01-09-2014, 05:33 PM
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
(01-09-2014 05:30 PM)OurFather Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 05:27 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Atheism doesn't require faith.

Science is the antithesis of faith. Science is a process that contains multiple and redundant checks, balances, and safeguards against human bias and error. Science has a built in corrective mechanism..hypothesis testing...that weeds out false claims. Claims that come about as a result of a scientific process are held as tentatively true by scientists..unlike claims of faith that are held as eternally true with zero evidence. Related to this, claims that come about as a result of a scientific process are falsifiable, that is, there is a way to show the claims are false. This is not the case with faith claims. For example, there's no way to falisify the claim that the norse god Loki was able ot assume other forms.

Scientists try to prove claims false (falsification), unlike faith leaders who unequivocally state their faith claims are true. If a scientist can demonstrate that a popular scientific claim is false, he or she can become famous, get tenure, publish books, earn more money and become respected by her or his peers. If a preacher states that the claims of his faith tradition are false, he's excommunicated, defrocked or otherwise forced to abandon his position...the stifling of growth and enlightenment basically.

Science is a method for advancing our understanding. It is process we can use to bring us closer to the truth, and to weed out false claims. Science thus is the best way we've currently found to explain and understand how the universe works...unlike the religious leaders who base it on a superstitious fictional book put together and sold to the masses.

Faith IS the delusion, belief without evidence. Faith is pretending to know things that you dont know. To say "I have faith in god" really means "I pretend to know things I don't know about god"....THINK about it, you dont know, you HOPE. Faith is an epistemology. It's a method and process people use to understand reality. Faith-based claims are knowledge claims. For example, "I have faith that jesus christ will heal my sickness because it says so in Luke" is a knowledge claim. The utterer of this statement is asserting jesus will heal her. Those who make faith claims are professing to know something about the external world. For example, when someone says "jesus walked on water" (matthew 14:22-33), that person is claiming TO KNOW there was an historical figure names jesus and that he, unaided by technology, literally walked across the surface of the water. This is a knowledge claim...an objective statement of fact.

Your religious beliefs typically depend on the community in which you were raised or lived. The spiritual experiences of people in ancient greece, medieval japan or 21st century saudia arabia do not lead to belief in christianity. It seems, therefore, that religious belief very likely tracks not truth but social conditioning.

Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, STenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc)

If a belief is based on insufficient evidence, than any further conclusion drawn from the belief will at best be of questionable value. This can not point one to the path of truth. Here are five points believers/non believers should be able to agree upon.

1) There are different faith traditions.
2) Different faith traditions make different truth claims.
3) The truth claims of some faith traditions contradict the truth claims of other faith traditions. For example, Muslims believe muhammad (570-632) was the last prophet (Sura 33:40). Mormons believe Joseph Smith (1805-1844), who lived after muhammad was a prophet.
4) It cannot both be the case that muhammad was the last prophet, and someone who lived after him was also a prophet.
5) Therefore: At LEAST one of these claims must be false....perhaps both....

it is impossible to figure out which of these claims is incorrect if the tool one uses is faith. As a tool, as an epistemology, as a method of reasoning, as a process for knowing the world, faith cannot adjudicate between competing claims. The ONLY way to figure out which claims about the world are likely true, and which are likely false, is through reason and evidence. There is no other way...yet.

I do understand your debacle though, I had to hide for years among creationists, now I am confident enough on my knowledge and experience to be able to say firmly, no, I don't believe in a god, it is a man made fabrication.

Good luck in your journey though, if you have any questions about Xtianity, it is quite the personal passion of mine. I have taken many, many theology classes, and specialize in Xtianity, let me know....
Thank our mortal gods (annunaki) for the internet, because if my professors ever found out that what that what I've been taught for the past 8yrs is propaganda lies , i'd be kicked out. Yet I still get high marks, likely because I dwell deeper into each subject more than the average student would. Remember, I still believe in atheism just not what mainstream media tells us.

So here's what I believe in and what 22nd century atheists will likely believe in:
1. There is no GOD, but there are gods who created this universe and their universe and so forth.
2. All intelligent species in this universe have a soul, the intelligent design that created this dimension made it so so we can become gods one day.
3. Spirituality is more advanced than Science. One day both will come together as one. The theists and the atheists will agree on middle ground.

I know the feeling, in each theology class I took at Saint Leo University I was most likely the only atheist in class, and I refuted the misinformation strongly throughout the whole class and still made As. Smile

Interesting...and how did you arrive at this posit? Sounds a little like scientology hehe, no I kid i kid. Seriously, how did you get THERE?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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01-09-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
I agree with you goodwithoutgod

the problem i have with the definition of science where we have to create hypothesis and prove or disprove it: is that we are limited to todays technology.

1000yrs from now - those atheists of the future will look back at us 21st century atheists and say "poor primitive atheists, they didn't realize that spirituality is a science".

But its not our fault. We say humans have no souls as scientists because we cannot prove it with our current knowledge. Yet we know that energy cannot be destroyed when someone dies. So that kinetic energy that engulfs an embryo at birth, where did it go?
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01-09-2014, 05:41 PM
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
(01-09-2014 05:36 PM)OurFather Wrote:  But its not our fault. We say humans have no souls as scientists because we cannot prove it with our current knowledge. Yet we know that energy cannot be destroyed when someone dies. So that kinetic energy that engulfs an embryo at birth, where did it go?
It goes back into the environment. Energy =/= souls, otherwise my laptop, tablet, phone, lighting system, oven, the very hot chunks cut up wood outside, rocks, metal water containers, etc all have souls.

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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01-09-2014, 05:43 PM
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
(01-09-2014 05:33 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 05:30 PM)OurFather Wrote:  Thank our mortal gods (annunaki) for the internet, because if my professors ever found out that what that what I've been taught for the past 8yrs is propaganda lies , i'd be kicked out. Yet I still get high marks, likely because I dwell deeper into each subject more than the average student would. Remember, I still believe in atheism just not what mainstream media tells us.

So here's what I believe in and what 22nd century atheists will likely believe in:
1. There is no GOD, but there are gods who created this universe and their universe and so forth.
2. All intelligent species in this universe have a soul, the intelligent design that created this dimension made it so so we can become gods one day.
3. Spirituality is more advanced than Science. One day both will come together as one. The theists and the atheists will agree on middle ground.

I know the feeling, in each theology class I took at Saint Leo University I was most likely the only atheist in class, and I refuted the misinformation strongly throughout the whole class and still made As. Smile

Interesting...and how did you arrive at this posit? Sounds a little like scientology hehe, no I kid i kid. Seriously, how did you get THERE?

I went from:
Catholic as a child
Atheist as a Teen and young adulthood (I found it as a form of rebellion against authority)
Then while attending grad school in science - I questioned my professors whether they can prove intelligent design is not possible. Or if souls exists. I was more trying to troll them, and then I started realizing that they are clueless due to the lack of knowledge we have in the 21st century. I came across various books like Zacharia Zitchen and few other alternative atheists. I also found it odd that secret societies require you to believe in a god in order to join "Did they know something we atheists didn't know?".

So now i've converted back to theist (but where our gods were mortal at one time). Since then they've likely achieved spiritual enlightment and have become true GODS. One where given enough time to evolve, according to darwinism, a species will advance in intelligence so much that they will reach the limits of science and dwell into the forbidden spirituality.

It's going to be so messed up graduating next year from a PHD in science/math. Ohh well, I suppose my future employers need not know.
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01-09-2014, 05:44 PM
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
(01-09-2014 05:09 PM)OurFather Wrote:  But here's the kicker, I'm a closet-theist in an organization that only lets in atheists.
What organization would that be? Consider

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01-09-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
(01-09-2014 05:44 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 05:09 PM)OurFather Wrote:  But here's the kicker, I'm a closet-theist in an organization that only lets in atheists.
What organization would that be? Consider

Scientific community. When acquiring a grant to do an experiment with my colleagues I dare never say that I doubt atheism. Or I'll get kicked out of the team.
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01-09-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
O.o

You have some strange views. If you don't have some SERIOUS evidence for this any ridicule is well deserved.
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01-09-2014, 05:53 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2014 06:01 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
(01-09-2014 05:09 PM)OurFather Wrote:  I'm a student studying theoretical physics.

Here's the problem I have with fellow colleagues. They have no tolerance for anyone that goes against an establish theory whether its mathematics or physics. If you so much even say that the speed of light can be broken, you can expect backlash.

But here's the kicker, I'm a closet-theist in an organization that only lets in atheists. It's like a gay coming out in modern times as a comparison. But I dare not every mention to anyone that I believe in 'intelligent design' and that humanity will scientifically prove it.

I know a few other upcoming students who feel like Michaelango vs the Vatican in centuries ago. Today it is the atheist mainstream media who demonizes any physicist who so much even thinks intelligent design is possible.

Personally I think the universe was created by an advanced civilization, and the big bang is a big science experiment to them. Their creators were also other enlightened entities. We the humans will become gods one day to other primitive civilizations, one day creating their big bang. The question is 'who/what was the original source?", and no i find it hard to believe that it was a spontaneous hydrogen atom that came into existence who is our god.

It's the same in every field. The med students hate the chiropractors, etc etc etc.
Waa waa waa.
I have some news for ya.
You are no "theist" by any definition I know of.
You cooked up your own little fantasy, and call it "theism". (???)
If you *need* to share your personal fantasies with your colleges, you can expect push-back. There is no evidence for it.
Intelligent Design is actually an argument AGAINST a deity. A real god could make life, (or anything else) work, or happen, without being "designed".

Oh, and BTW, I seriously doubt you really are in science. If you were, you would know you can't generalize, with no data, from one personal experience.
PSS. Your "Father" is really a "Mother".
I worship Yahweh's wife, Ashera.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-09-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
(01-09-2014 05:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 05:09 PM)OurFather Wrote:  I'm a student studying theoretical physics.

Here's the problem I have with fellow colleagues. They have no tolerance for anyone that goes against an establish theory whether its mathematics or physics. If you so much even say that the speed of light can be broken, you can expect backlash.

But here's the kicker, I'm a closet-theist in an organization that only lets in atheists. It's like a gay coming out in modern times as a comparison. But I dare not every mention to anyone that I believe in 'intelligent design' and that humanity will scientifically prove it.

I know a few other upcoming students who feel like Michaelango vs the Vatican in centuries ago. Today it is the atheist mainstream media who demonizes any physicist who so much even thinks intelligent design is possible.

Personally I think the universe was created by an advanced civilization, and the big bang is a big science experiment to them. Their creators were also other enlightened entities. We the humans will become gods one day to other primitive civilizations, one day creating their big bang. The question is 'who/what was the original source?", and no i find it hard to believe that it was a spontaneous hydrogen atom that came into existence who is our god.

It's the same in every field. The med students hate the chiropractors, etc etc etc.
Waa waa waa.
I have some news for ya.
You are no "theist" by any definition I know of.
You cooked up your own little fantasy, and call it "theism". (???)
If you *need* to share your personal fantasies with your colleges, you can expect push-back. There is no evidence for it.
Intelligent Design is actually an argument AGAINST a deity. A real god could make life, (or anything else) work, or happen, without being "designed".

Wait so 'intelligent design' is an atheist concept?

Then how come when i talk to atheists, they get mad when I say "an advanced civilization' created us.
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01-09-2014, 06:00 PM
RE: Atheism has less tolerance than theism
(01-09-2014 05:49 PM)OurFather Wrote:  Scientific community.
That is demonstrably untrue. There are many outspoken religious scientists; Francis Collins, for example.

(01-09-2014 05:49 PM)OurFather Wrote:  When acquiring a grant to do an experiment with my colleagues I dare never say that I doubt atheism. Or I'll get kicked out of the team.
How do you know that that would happen?

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