Atheism in ten years.
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31-10-2014, 08:17 AM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
(31-10-2014 07:57 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 07:53 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Where do you all see the unaffiliated or more specifically,atheists, to be in ten years?

I think the more interesting question is not the numerical growth, but what forms it takes?

The US form of atheism experiment is quite different than the developments in the other western world, where it wasn't developed in the mire of anti-religion, or in the view of religion as such a stain that needs to be blotted, but one that occurred as the significance of a religion in one's life just wained over the years, lost less in opposition, and more like a natural occurrence, like a tree shedding some leaves.

Atheism in the US sort of appeared on the scene violently, an unavoidable presence, while atheism in other western regions arose quietly that no one even noticed it. And with modern technology and such, our form of atheism partakes in a dialogue with theist and atheist, it develops in conversation, conversations that leaks out onto even those not having them, which I think is of crucial importance for both parties, and likely to give our future forms some unique and surprising results.

Anti-theism, the sort heralded in by folks like Dawkins, and Harris seems to be waining as of late, but the dialogue between the non-religious, and religious continue, as to what this means in light of our world.

Long string of opinions with not a shred of supporting references. Madelyn Murray O'Hare was "violent" ? "Anti-theism is waning" ? Really ? The evidence for that is what ?

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31-10-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
(31-10-2014 08:17 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:57 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I think the more interesting question is not the numerical growth, but what forms it takes?

The US form of atheism experiment is quite different than the developments in the other western world, where it wasn't developed in the mire of anti-religion, or in the view of religion as such a stain that needs to be blotted, but one that occurred as the significance of a religion in one's life just wained over the years, lost less in opposition, and more like a natural occurrence, like a tree shedding some leaves.

Atheism in the US sort of appeared on the scene violently, an unavoidable presence, while atheism in other western regions arose quietly that no one even noticed it. And with modern technology and such, our form of atheism partakes in a dialogue with theist and atheist, it develops in conversation, conversations that leaks out onto even those not having them, which I think is of crucial importance for both parties, and likely to give our future forms some unique and surprising results.

Anti-theism, the sort heralded in by folks like Dawkins, and Harris seems to be waining as of late, but the dialogue between the non-religious, and religious continue, as to what this means in light of our world.

Long string of opinions with not a shred of supporting references. Madelyn Murray O'Hare was "violent" ? "Anti-theism is waning" ? Really ? The evidence for that is what ?

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31-10-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
(31-10-2014 07:57 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 07:53 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Where do you all see the unaffiliated or more specifically,atheists, to be in ten years?

I think the more interesting question is not the numerical growth, but what forms it takes?

The US form of atheism experiment is quite different than the developments in the other western world, where it wasn't developed in the mire of anti-religion, or in the view of religion as such a stain that needs to be blotted, but one that occurred as the significance of a religion in one's life just wained over the years, lost less in opposition, and more like a natural occurrence, like a tree shedding some leaves.

Atheism in the US sort of appeared on the scene violently, an unavoidable presence, while atheism in other western regions arose quietly that no one even noticed it. And with modern technology and such, our form of atheism partakes in a dialogue with theist and atheist, it develops in conversation, conversations that leaks out onto even those not having them, which I think is of crucial importance for both parties, and likely to give our future forms some unique and surprising results.

Anti-theism, the sort heralded in by folks like Dawkins, and Harris seems to be waining as of late, but the dialogue between the non-religious, and religious continue, as to what this means in light of our world.

I can understand why one would hold that opinion. But I think that it's seen through a narrow lens.

There was plenty of anti-atheism violence around in Europe a few centuries back... quite a few singed 'heretics'.

Recently, well OK, I see what you're getting at but it's more to do with secular politics and economic stability since WWII and the Hobbesian model of one dominant religion breeding complacency and contentment.

In the US, I suspect the privatisation of religion has been a factor in encouraging more rigourous (rather than violent) debate.

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02-11-2014, 10:39 PM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
(31-10-2014 08:17 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Long string of opinions with not a shred of supporting references.

Yes, it is my opinion based on own experiences. If someone has a different opinion, I'd be welcome to hearing that as well.

Quote:Madelyn Murray O'Hare was "violent" ?

I met "violent" figuratively.

Quote: "Anti-theism is waning" ? Really ? The evidence for that is what ?

What was the last anti-theistic book that made it into the top sellers list?

I think it's been hard to sustain or spread anti-theism, now that that we're passing over a decade since 9/11, and the death of the Bush dynasty. Hitchens has passed away, Dawkins is over there writing children's book and an autobiography, and has devoted his golden years promoting misogyny. Harris spends his time arguing for objective morality, and his most recent book is attempting to sell spirituality to non-believing masses, and Dennett, who knows where he went.

In internet forums I've been visiting for several years now, a tone of hostility, has become one of a sort of amiable toleration. It's not that we don't have plenty of angry atheist, they are just less common now it seems.

Our current climate with the exception of radical Islam, is no longer as fertile as it once was for anti-theistic sentiment.
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02-11-2014, 10:55 PM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
Non-belief in the ancient cults in educated nations is rising, if not the rule.
50 years ago, to admit one was an atheist in the era of Madelyn Murray O'Hare was tantamount to saying you were possessed by a devil. It's still the same as it was in Aristotle's day. Society invests religions with their fundamental values. (The notion of what a god is, has change radically in the last 200 years). Today we are at a point where the heroine in one of THE most popular TV shows (yes our culture is driven by Hollywood, for good or ill), The Good Wife, could announce on the air last year she was an atheist, and what happened ? Nothing. So I think it's like everything else happening these days. I agree with Kurzweil, that we are on the precipice of HUGE changes, and as "The Singularity" unfolds, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singularity_Is_Near
the old cults will be tossed in the dustbin of history. But there will always be the insane nuts who attempt to revive it and use it for own their purposes.

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02-11-2014, 11:52 PM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
(02-11-2014 10:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Hollywood, for good or ill), The Good Wife, could announce on the air last year she was an atheist, and what happened ? Nothing

Well, it's nice to see the we have one thing in common. We both like The Good Wife.
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03-11-2014, 01:21 AM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
Bucky, in your best estimation, when do you think non-belief will overturn the current system of accepted theism?
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03-11-2014, 10:58 AM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
(30-10-2014 07:53 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Where do you all see the unaffiliated or more specifically,atheists, to be in ten years?

What I mean by that is how much of an increase in the U.S or world wide do you think it will get in ten years? Do you think the increase is going to be faster then it has in the last ten years since the four horsemen put out their books in the early 00's? Or do you think its going to stay constant or slow down?

It depends on how you define things. There's a big difference between the number of people who openly identify as atheist and the number of people who hold no theistic beliefs (as in, a difference by a factor of somewhere between five and ten).

That being said, if take all of the "unaffiliated" or nonreligious lumped together, I see it increasing in the next ten years in the states. I think it's around 20% now. I could see it climbing to 30 easily, and maybe 40, but I'm not sure about that.

World wide, I don't expect to see as much growth, and it may actually go backward. From what I understand, theism is on the rise in developing countries, and their total populations are increasing faster than those in developing countries.
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03-11-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
(30-10-2014 07:53 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Where do you all see the unaffiliated or more specifically,atheists, to be in ten years?

What I mean by that is how much of an increase in the U.S or world wide do you think it will get in ten years? Do you think the increase is going to be faster then it has in the last ten years since the four horsemen put out their books in the early 00's? Or do you think its going to stay constant or slow down?

Personally, I do not see an increase in speed of the unaffiliated or Atheists increasing, but I do see our numbers rising. I think in the next ten years, we could see our numbers in the U.S double in ten years from what they are today. I belief the current number is 4% of the U.S openly claims atheism. I would think that it would be around 10% by 2025. Maybe 15% if numbers gives impact on how fast it increases. This is not counting the agnostics, and all the other unaffiliated people.

This has and will always boil down to how fast information will spread. History is the best predictor of future events so ask yourself how much has changed in the last 10 years regarding atheism in the world and you'll find your rate for calculation. I see the same trend continuing but perhaps at or exceeding double the rate we've seen to this point.

As information spreads the shift we've seen over the last ten years will be surpassed in just the next 5 years alone and will continue at that rate or beyond. My hope and expectation is at least 70% atheist by 2025. A number that will largely be contended by everyone here I'm sure but cannot be proven wrong so we'll just have to wait and see. I'm confident a number of scenarios could unfold by then further increasing the probability of 70% atheist. Finding signatures of life outside our solar system to name one such scenario would go a long way in getting to 70%.
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03-11-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: Atheism in ten years.
(31-10-2014 07:57 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Atheism in the US sort of appeared on the scene violently, an unavoidable presence

What do you mean by "violently"? Do you mean "suddenly"? I don't know anything violent about American atheism.
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