Atheism is a position with assumptions...
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31-12-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Despite my "lack of belief" I do not consider myself to be an atheist.

I don't dwell on lacking belief in any theist claims, why would I bother.

I also don't assume science will answer the question of existence, nor look to it to guide my philosophy on anything. What is proven, or not falsified holds no sway on defining my position.

Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.

Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalise it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

You don't believe in God, but you don't dwell on it.

So what the fuck are you doing here?

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31-12-2014, 06:39 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Despite my "lack of belief" I do not consider myself to be an atheist.

I don't dwell on lacking belief in any theist claims, why would I bother.

I also don't assume science will answer the question of existence, nor look to it to guide my philosophy on anything. What is proven, or not falsified holds no sway on defining my position.

Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.

Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalise it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

I reject the notion that existence needs or can be accounted for. Whatever we found to account for existence would itself be a part of existence. Existence is not contingent upon any explanation, all explanations are contingent on existence.

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31-12-2014, 07:09 PM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2014 07:12 PM by Brownshirt.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 11:26 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Despite my "lack of belief" I do not consider myself to be an atheist.

You can call yourself anything you want, does not mean its gonna be true. Your an atheist. Get over it.

Nah I'm agnostic, my lack of belief in someone else's position doesn't define mine.


Quote:
Quote:I don't dwell on lacking belief in any theist claims, why would I bother.
OK, good for you I guess. Do whatever you want, I really do not fucking care!

Then don't write anything.

Quote:I also don't assume science will answer the question of existence,

Quote:OK, you are a pessimist when it comes to the future of science. That's OK, some scientists might agree that science may not be able to answer everything in the entire universe and others who are more like me and more positive think the other way. What's your point? Are you assuming that all atheists think science is the end all be all of answers to the universe? If so, your wrong.

I'm sure theists think you're pessimistic too.


Quote:nor look to it to guide my philosophy on anything.
Science has nothing to do with philosophy. Why did you write this?
Quote:Because of the application of science into people's philosophy.

Quote:Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.
Are you trying to say that science discovering our origins? We have almost pretty much done that already. There is no assumption. You clearly know nothing about what your talking about.

Still you're. We have done nothing of the sort, or are you still focusing on abiogenesis? Saying I know nothing about what I'm talking about and failing to know what I'm talking about is a bad look for. I suspect you're used to it though.


Quote:
Quote: Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalize it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

This sentence does nto make much sense. You need to learn how to write more clearly so that people can understand what you are trying to say.

Also, use spell check.

Take ownership on your ability to understand.

I didn't spell anything incorrectly. Glass houses and all that.

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31-12-2014, 07:14 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 02:21 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 09:14 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Evolution discounts creationism, nothing more. Without the ability to account for cause and affects basing a view on what we cannot account for doesn't say much does it?
Evolution doesn't discount creationism.

True, I was talking about young earth creationism.
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31-12-2014, 07:17 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 05:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:56 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Some do, some don't. There are strongly implied overtones by many atheists which claim the 'natural' (what we can observe) is all there is, otherwise why would so many address this as pivotal towards justifying atheism.

Justify atheism? Seriously?

In what way does lacking belief in an unevidenced claim require justification? Consider

Mainly because those who claim to be atheists are also philosophical naturalists, which does require justification. Sure there will be atheists who don't hold this view but then their atheism is not active.
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31-12-2014, 07:20 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 07:52 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I accept the idea that people can lie and imagine that something exists when it doesn't.

I accept that some people are gullible and will accept the lies of others without evidence to support a claim.

My ability to think critically and analyze a situation with skepticism helps me to evaluate claims in order to determine if they are likely to be true.

One of the key requirements for evaluating a claim is evidence .

When evidence is missing, a claim cannot be supported.

The working areas of my brain that evaluates claims justifies why I am not gullible.

I suspect most of your claims have circular references in them.
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31-12-2014, 07:31 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 10:36 AM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:I also don't assume science will answer the question of existence, nor look to it to guide my philosophy on anything. What is proven, or not falsified holds no sway on defining my position.

Okay, so you reject demonstrable knowledge in favor of holding on to some alternate and yet undefined philosophy.

You'll need to tell me what relevant knowledge we hold towards justifying naturalism before I believe it. What did you require to believe it.

Quote:
Quote:Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.

Actually, science regards it as a hypothesis which is in fact grounded and based upon empirical evidence. So, your claim above is ... X WRONG!

Lol, let me see. As science is grounded in empirical evidence, it therefore can account for what it has not observed/tested. Love your reasoning there.



Quote:
Quote:Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalize it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

You reject the 'standard canned arguments" as if they are meaningless. This only demonstrates your inability to reason and rationalize effectively.

I reject the application of them. The retorts are so generic that atheists sound like theists, all singing from the same hymn book. I find it strange that you claim to be logical, but it seems only when it comes to disproving a theory you oppose. You hold no evidence, or use any logic to propose why naturalism is an appropriate philosophy beyond that as "science works" it must transcends what it has proven.

You do realise that many secular countries reject the devout atheist kind as well don't you. Perhaps you're wrapped up in your own personal battle when religion is dominant.


Quote:Conclusion: You are a theist masquerading as a non theist in an effort to dupe us into not rejecting your premise based upon your theistic principles.

You are done here.

Drinking Beverage

Cannot compute, how can anyone oppose our impeccable logic. Must throw down biggest insult, you must be a theist.
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31-12-2014, 07:33 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 11:25 AM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 03:52 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Are you a 19th century serial killer, who murders prostitutes in the East End of London.
Did you really only have 5 victims, why did you spell Juwes incorrectly? Was that really you? Were you a royal with syphilis?
Are you really a member of the Nazi party which murdered 6 million Jews? As for the rest of your Babel I have no clue what it means. Jack is pretty tame when you put him next to the Nazis.

I will presume you don't know much about the name you have then.
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31-12-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 11:29 AM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Oh, it's you again.

What brings you back here?

The promise of entertainment.
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31-12-2014, 07:35 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 12:51 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 03:54 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Hurray just what we need another line of correct thought.

Hurray! Just what we need, another tit telling us what and how to think.

You don't like Dawkins? Fine. You don't like atheism? Fine too. You want me to agree with you? Present a well-reasoned argument that isn't a childish temper-tantrum. These one-liners aren't doing your cause any favours. Otherwise, go bugger yourself with a splintery broom handle.

(31-12-2014 04:03 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  This is one of weakest arguments regularly used by you lot. It would be funny if you didn't believe it to be true. Science has no information relevant to offer here. Just because it does in other areas, doesn't make it so here. Keep pushing that angle though, it's actually quite funny how an indoctrinated group offer the same canned retorts. It show there's no doctrine at all eh?

You keep conflating atheism with science and science with philosophy. Put the keyboard down, go figure out what it is that you object to and why, synthesize it into a coherent thesis and then get back to us.

Seriously. Look at the OP. It's six sentences that abuse the English language and try to address all three topics at once. Pick one topic and try to address you grievances at a little more length.

(31-12-2014 04:03 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  You try to imply that science offers all solutions, even to things which it doesn't or potentially. That my slow friend, is philosophy.

Did you even read my post? It implies no such thing. It explicitly states the opposite.

Science does not answer questions such as The Meaning of Life or The Reason for Existence. It doesn't even ask them. It recognizes them as foolish questions based on the misapplication of language. What you are shrieking about is philosophy. Take it up with them.

You seem to be under the assumption that your position is challengeable.
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