Atheism is a position with assumptions...
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31-12-2014, 10:34 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 10:27 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 10:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  You misunderstand naturalism and science. I don't claim certainty, I claim weight of evidence and functional success.

Science - it works, bitch. Drinking Beverage

You're using logic to justify logic, but your logic says that circular reasoning is bad. Consider

And we need someone in here to check for socks.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? I am an atheist because it is the natural state of being we are all born into.
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31-12-2014, 11:26 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 10:17 PM)Free Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 07:31 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  You'll need to tell me what relevant knowledge we hold towards justifying naturalism before I believe it. What did you require to believe it.

The relevant knowledge we have is quite simple; since naturalism is the position that everything arises from natural properties and causes commonly known as Physical Law. Physical laws are typically conclusions based on repeated scientific experiments and observations over many years and which have become accepted universally within the scientific community.

Now, since the only available options other than naturalism are supernatural or spiritual options, and neither one of them has ever been demonstrated to even exist nor affect anything in any way, then the most viable measurement we have is indeed naturalism.

There are no other options. If you think there are, then please present them, and present your argument that would demonstrate your option as being greater than naturalism.

Lol you're missing the point here guy. Science is limited by our ability to observe/test. What makes you think that the repetition of experiments on what we can test transcends to anything we have not so far observed.

The lack of options doesn't make the best option correct does it?

Quote:Lol, let me see. As science is grounded in empirical evidence, it therefore can account for what it has not observed/tested. Love your reasoning there.
What has science NOT observed or tested? Also, if you thing a better method than naturalism exists to test anything, once again please bring your option to the table.

Now let's see who has a problem with reasoning.

Science has not provided an answer to the big bang, nor do I expect it to.

The lack of options doesn't make the best option correct does it?

Quote:I reject the application of them. The retorts are so generic that atheists sound like theists, all singing from the same hymn book. I find it strange that you claim to be logical, but it seems only when it comes to disproving a theory you oppose. You hold no evidence, or use any logic to propose why naturalism is an appropriate philosophy beyond that as "science works" it must transcends what it has proven.

Since you are making claims against naturalism, then you are obligated to provide a better option than naturalism.
[/quote]

No sorry I'm not. There is no certainty m'dear, no matter how much you try to concoct it.

Quote:
Quote:If you are unable to do that, then you are just like any other theist who comes in here with his woo and who gets WTFPWNED and then sent packing while holding his ass in his hands.

Cannot compute, how can anyone oppose our impeccable logic. Must throw down biggest insult, you must be a theist.

You are a theist. In fact, you are a Muslim.

Oh yes, I "know."

You seem a little insane.
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31-12-2014, 11:33 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 10:27 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 10:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  You misunderstand naturalism and science. I don't claim certainty, I claim weight of evidence and functional success.

Science - it works, bitch. Drinking Beverage

You're using logic to justify logic, but your logic says that circular reasoning is bad. Consider

I did no such thing. You have been reduced to repetitive ranting and raving, regurgitating rarely rational rhetorical rubbish.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-12-2014, 11:34 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 10:24 PM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  He's obviously a theist. denies truth even after it slaps him in the face. Naturalism is the only viable pursuit of truth.

I love it when atheist's call me a theist. It's as if the only way your position could ever be criticised would require someone who's a theist.

Naturalism doesn't consider many things. And assumes itself to be correct without proving it, which is very ironic given your claims.
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31-12-2014, 11:38 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 10:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 09:56 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  How about you need to assume methods of the empirical sciences are able to, or least trying to address the question at hand.

Science is limited by our ability to observe. If you feel that we possess the capability to assess the totality of existence, then I think you should be able to justify this assumption. For some reason most naturalists propose "it's the best option we've got". This does not convince me as being a best option does not satisfy the fact that it feels like an attempt at certainty despite the inherent lack of anything otherwise.

You misunderstand naturalism and science. I don't claim certainty, I claim weight of evidence and functional success.

Science - it works, bitch. Drinking Beverage


Eww the science, it works bitch" quote. When I see that I hthink of a Dawkins et al devotee with a chip on their shoulder.

Anyway, science works at assessing what it has assessed. Let me know when you stop assuming it to be the philosophical basis for truth.
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31-12-2014, 11:45 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 10:30 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 07:17 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Mainly because those who claim to be atheists are also philosophical naturalists, which does require justification. Sure there will be atheists who don't hold this view but then their atheism is not active.

Why does how one defines themselves as a label matter to you?

Based on what do you indicate atheist who don't hold a naturalist view are not active? What demonstrates being active then? You're just making assertions of unconnected ideas and seem to keep avoiding responses pointing that out to you.

I don't care, but most active atheists are irritating, self-proclaimed truth holders who hate theists, but have the same strength of resolve for being 'right'. Ironic huh?

Posting here, on other forums are all active atheists. All have a thorn in their ass. All promote naturalism. You merely like to propose them as being unconnected so you can just depend on that "lack of belief" definition, but still assert naturalism.
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31-12-2014, 11:47 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 11:38 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 10:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  You misunderstand naturalism and science. I don't claim certainty, I claim weight of evidence and functional success.

Science - it works, bitch. Drinking Beverage


Eww the science, it works bitch" quote. When I see that I hthink of a Dawkins et al devotee with a chip on their shoulder.

Anyway, science works at assessing what it has assessed. Let me know when you stop assuming it to be the philosophical basis for truth.

Oh fuck, can't you just go read about the philosophy of science yourself? Facepalm

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/philosophy

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31-12-2014, 11:51 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
Naturalism is the scientific principles, your saying you have a better system of quantifying the known and unknown universe. I gotta hear this bullshit. Please elaborate without a bunch of bullshit generalisation.
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01-01-2015, 12:04 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
I assume nothing. Your gonna have to show me.
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01-01-2015, 12:28 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(31-12-2014 11:47 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(31-12-2014 11:38 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Eww the science, it works bitch" quote. When I see that I hthink of a Dawkins et al devotee with a chip on their shoulder.

Anyway, science works at assessing what it has assessed. Let me know when you stop assuming it to be the philosophical basis for truth.

Oh fuck, can't you just go read about the philosophy of science yourself? Facepalm

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/philosophy

Oh fuck indeed....

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Philosophical_naturalism
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