Atheism is a position with assumptions...
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30-12-2014, 08:37 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:35 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Despite my "lack of belief" I do not consider myself to be an atheist.

I don't dwell on lacking belief in any theist claims, why would I bother.

I also don't assume science will answer the question of existence, nor look to it to guide my philosophy on anything. What is proven, or not falsified holds no sway on defining my position.

Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.

Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalise it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

I also don't assume science will explain existence, but I think it may be possible that one day it does. I also do not know of atheists who assume science can explain existence, including well known atheists like Lawrence Krauss who advocate for the possibility that science may eventually do just that. However, one thing I am certain of is that religion won't ever do the job.

So you think someone who is anti-theist has no agenda. What makes you think the by-product of existence is able to account for that which created it?
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30-12-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
Anti-theist and atheist aren't the same thing.

Please clarify who it is that you think has an agenda.

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30-12-2014, 08:41 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:37 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  So you think someone who is anti-theist has no agenda. What makes you think the by-product of existence is able to account for that which created it?

Everyone has an agenda--not sure what you are trying to achieve by claiming I state otherwise.

Your second sentence is word salad--what by-product are you talking about, and how does the concept of existence have this by-product property you speak of?
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30-12-2014, 08:41 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
Brownie, my atheism leads me to the assumption that you're an idiot.

I assume the universe changes moment by moment within the boundaries of a nearly ever static unchanging physical laws.

I, of course, could be wrong.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-12-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:37 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalise it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

Got a minute...

[Image: MQEps4h.jpg]

Ohh so the intelligibility of the universe means atheists are right?

This certainly does smack down any assumptions stating atheists assume things huh?
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30-12-2014, 08:43 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:39 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Anti-theist and atheist aren't the same thing.

Please clarify who it is that you think has an agenda.

Those who claim to be atheists are anti-theist.
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30-12-2014, 08:44 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Despite my "lack of belief" I do not consider myself to be an atheist.
Perhaps you could benefit from owning a dictionary.

(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I also don't assume science will answer the question of existence, nor look to it to guide my philosophy on anything. What is proven, or not falsified holds no sway on defining my position.
There is no requirement for atheists to be interested in science. You, for example, are an atheist that is not interested in science.

(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists...
Science definitively shows that creationists are wrong. Evolution is true, Earth is over 4 billion years old, dinosaur fossils are millions of years old. Our observable universe is over 14 billion years old. We can see light from other galaxies which has traveled for millions or billions of years. The grand canyon has been formed over millions of years of wear and tear due to the flow of the Colorado river.

But science does much much more than prove creationist wrong, science is a proven and solid method of discovery, for anyone interested in the mechanisms and characteristics of our natural universe.


(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  ...and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.
Most atheists I know admit that humans don't yet know how our observable universe came to be.
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30-12-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:43 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:39 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Anti-theist and atheist aren't the same thing.

Please clarify who it is that you think has an agenda.

Those who claim to be atheists are anti-theist.

No they aren't. Not all of them.

Dandy claim on your part though.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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30-12-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:41 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:37 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  So you think someone who is anti-theist has no agenda. What makes you think the by-product of existence is able to account for that which created it?

Everyone has an agenda--not sure what you are trying to achieve by claiming I state otherwise.

Your second sentence is word salad--what by-product are you talking about, and how does the concept of existence have this by-product property you speak of?

This may help:
What makes you think the by-product of existence (humanity) is able to account for that which created it (existence)?
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30-12-2014, 08:48 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:45 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:43 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Those who claim to be atheists are anti-theist.

No they aren't. Not all of them.

Dandy claim on your part though.

I'm sure there are many atheist's here who love religion, most of the founding father's (Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, etc) like religion but are compelled to tell the truth.
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