Atheism is a position with assumptions...
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02-01-2015, 02:07 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
Your logic is completely flawed, a theist believes in things unprovable .
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02-01-2015, 02:27 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(02-01-2015 12:36 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Do you believe philosophical naturalism to probably be true, but switch to methodological so there's no proof requirement?

No. (Though philosophical naturalism doesn't hold the burden of proof either.)

(02-01-2015 01:42 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 12:55 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I do assert anything. I don't deny naturalism but I'm not certain of it nor think it's some definitive reality.

I don't really care to follow your questioning points because all I see you do here is make generalizations based on assumptions of other peoples "reasons." Anything someone says seems to be countered by a random alternate purpose.
i presume you mean "i don't assert anything".

What do you deny?

I think I can answer this for him: Belief in the existence of god.

(02-01-2015 12:55 AM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  I have talked about nothing but physical laws, have I not?
The scientific method Reason is the only viable path for the advancement of human knowledge, and is responsible for our current knowledge of the known universe. That's my position.

(02-01-2015 02:07 AM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  Your logic is completely flawed, a theist believes in things unprovable .

And therefore a non-theist (an a-thiest, if you will), doesn't believe in one, specific, unproveable thing. It doesn't have anything to do with the validity of any other belief an athiest has.

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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02-01-2015, 03:08 AM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2015 03:18 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(02-01-2015 01:42 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 12:55 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I do assert anything. I don't deny naturalism but I'm not certain of it nor think it's some definitive reality.

I don't really care to follow your questioning points because all I see you do here is make generalizations based on assumptions of other peoples "reasons." Anything someone says seems to be countered by a random alternate purpose.
i presume you mean "i don't assert anything".

What do you deny?

Correct that's what I meant to say.

I deny a great many things. I do deny that I know many things for certain like absolute certainty in naturalism. I don't quite believe anything else but the natural could exist but I don't deny it's potential.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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02-01-2015, 03:13 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
At the beginning of the 20th century David Hilbert posed 23 questions which would challenge mathematics over the next century.

I was studying maths under Dr. J. P. Jones when he was awarded the Ford Foundation award for his work on answering Hilbert's 10th question: http://www.williamstein.org/edu/Spring20...bert10.pdf

What we need is a new set of questions for this century.

I find a lot of discussion here is highly argumentative in a negative and destructive way.

For instance, the positions being put forward by Atwill, Ellis and Donini support a view that Jesus was a real person and that the Romans altered his story to suit themselves. The question is, who is this person? The response here is to heap abuse on people rather than investigating the question.

Another area which interests me professionally is the treatment of alcoholism and addiction. Next year a drug will be licensed which stops people having addictive craving. Has anyone heard of this development? No. It's called baclofen and was discovered in 1923 but despite the success of its use in tens of thousands of cases of people with liver disease to stop them drinking, there is huge ignorance of this field of study. People die, who cares, no one, have another drink.

DNA, linguisitic studies, NASA thermal imaging of the earth shows ancient civilizations of what were proto-Europeans in places like Syria when it was a green place of sheep farming and we can now begin to understand the origins of western civilization. At the same time, we are up against an old religion which fought against Rome 2000 years ago and has come down to us almost unchanged, bypassing the West's enlightenment and reformation. Do we look at the moral and philosophical bases of the religions involved?? No. The only people looking at this are people like Karen Armstrong at Charter for Compassion and those involved in Civil Society organizations. It is important, I think, to use science to understand history and to use reason to see what the moral basis of religions like Christianity and Islam are and to start chosing a way forward. Otherwise, we are going to be plagued by revenge and violence based religious dogmas for another hundred years.
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02-01-2015, 05:07 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
For the OP: When is requiring evidence irrational or seeking to be guided by reality for that matter?

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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02-01-2015, 08:27 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(02-01-2015 01:48 AM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  There is no way that position could be held by a theist . That's the stupidest statement ever made.

Your failure to quote what you're referencing along with your inability to even define what you believe let alone justify it makes you're another it's true as i believe it type. i hope, for your sake that you're just trolling.
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02-01-2015, 08:39 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(02-01-2015 02:05 AM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  I don't have any assumptions about things that don't exist.

Your position is an assumption but you lack the intelligence to see this.

Let me guess you're another atheist who references the inability to disprove fairies as a basis to make assumptions about some form of creator.
apart from being very dishonest its also incredibly dim.
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02-01-2015, 08:40 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2015 08:52 PM by Free.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(02-01-2015 08:39 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 02:05 AM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  I don't have any assumptions about things that don't exist.

Your position is an assumption but you lack the intelligence to see this.

Let me guess you're another atheist who references the inability to disprove fairies as a basis to make assumptions about some form of creator.
apart from being very dishonest its also incredibly dim.

And you are a Nazi loving white supremacist cunt, right Brownshirt?

So there's that.

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02-01-2015, 08:42 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(02-01-2015 02:07 AM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  Your logic is completely flawed, a theist believes in things unprovable .

i dont care what a theist believes. You believe everything is provable, but lack any proof of this.
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02-01-2015, 09:05 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(02-01-2015 02:27 AM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  No. (Though philosophical naturalism doesn't hold the burden of proof either.)

Of course it does. It asserts the natural is all there is. You would hope that you would have evidence for this claim, such as accounting for existence so nothing beyonf our sphere of knowledge would be required.

[quote]
I think I can answer this for him: Belief in the existence of god.
[/quote ]

Along with anything being beyond our observation.


(02-01-2015 12:55 AM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  I have talked about nothing but physical laws, have I not?
The scientific method Reason is the only viable path for the advancement of human knowledge, and is responsible for our current knowledge of the known universe. That's my position.

Shame he doesn't use reason when something is unknown.
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