Atheism is a position with assumptions...
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03-01-2015, 03:22 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2015 03:29 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 02:52 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Well that was painful. Tell me, what evidence do you have to suggest that we're getting closer to finding relevant evidence to existence being a a purely natural process. Of course by natural I don't mean supernatural. Please don't go into one of your supernatural rants, they were dull and boring.

Define 'existence'.

Define 'evidence'.

Define 'natural'.

After that, once I'm sure you can't weasel around, then I might answer you. Drinking Beverage

And you're right, being a dumb cunt must be tiring for you. Glad to say I can't relate. Good luck with that. Thumbsup

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03-01-2015, 03:24 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2015 03:28 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 01:58 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 11:40 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Not quite sure what he said. You asked me what I deny and basically have been saying from multiple posts here I deny any definitive naturalism. There's some other posts trying to indicate that basically as well.

I would also say your points against Chas aren't logically sound. I've seen him say he doesn't hold a position and you jump to say he therefore hold an opposing position. But concepts aren't universally one or the other in this area. You seem to want to insist generalized statements about people in an all one way manner.

As I've said I think many atheists are philosophical naturalists but don't want the burden. Chas has not denied it, just said he never said that. Not the same thing.

And like I said before, all you want to do here is generalize and presume anything someone says is cause by ulterior motives.

Is there anyway you could be convinced of someone holding the position they claim to take? What would it take? The purpose of why I deny it is because I deny anything in an absolute essence, and most of my positions on things come from a skeptical position. Even being skeptical of what I am and can be skeptical about.

I'm not saying Chas denied that, but you indicated that same mental behavior with him and do the same to me when I deny it. And do the same to multiple other positions of people on this board on various points. It reeks of intellectual dishonesty.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-01-2015, 03:35 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 03:22 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 02:52 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Well that was painful. Tell me, what evidence do you have to suggest that we're getting closer to finding relevant evidence to existence being a a purely natural process. Of course by natural I don't mean supernatural. Please don't go into one of your supernatural rants, they were dull and boring.

Define 'existence'.

Define 'evidence'.

Define 'natural'.

After that, once I'm sure you can't weasel around, then I might answer you. Drinking Beverage

And you're right, being a dumb cunt must be tiring. Glad to say I can't relate. Good luck with that. Thumbsup

You missed the point, probably due to being a dumb fuck and then project weaseling. Who knows?

Existence - the universe and it's catalyst.
Evidence - to account for existence (see above if you're getting lost)
Natural - anything that we can obtain as evidence (once again see above if you're getting lost here).

Tell me how intelligent you are, anyone who says this tends to be a giant.
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03-01-2015, 03:38 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 01:53 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 11:39 PM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  What brownshart is saying is if we don't know what we don't know. Then how do we know what we don't know exists. He is basing his bullshit on reason alone.

So much better to assume that we can observe everything.
Tell us what is not observable. Please enlighten us. You got nothing.
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03-01-2015, 03:45 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 03:24 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 01:58 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  As I've said I think many atheists are philosophical naturalists but don't want the burden. Chas has not denied it, just said he never said that. Not the same thing.

And like I said before, all you want to do here is generalize and presume anything someone says is cause by ulterior motives.

Yes that's because experience has shown that atheists, will state as much as possible but suddenly disappear when called upon to back their claims of the natural being all there is. This is primarily because of the dependence on evidence (or lack) to disprove religion, bit of a tangled web there huh? Unfortunately, there's no evidence for naturalism either. If there was some evidence which would rationalise a natural existence then you'd have something. The use of analogies misses the point here.

Quote:Is there anyway you could be convinced of someone holding the position they claim to take? What would it take? The purpose of why I deny it is because I deny anything in an absolute essence, and most of my positions on things come from a skeptical position. Even being skeptical of what I am and can be skeptical about.

So why join a devout group like atheism? You could join a theist group as well?

Quote:I'm not saying Chas denied that, but you indicated that same mental behavior with him and do the same to me when I deny it. And do the same to multiple other positions of people on this board on various points. It reeks of intellectual dishonesty.

Mainly as i don't believe atheists are intellectual honest, and want the appearance of it rather than actual honesty. The agenda of atheists is too strong.
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03-01-2015, 03:46 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 03:38 AM)Jack_Ripper Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 01:53 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  So much better to assume that we can observe everything.
Tell us what is not observable. Please enlighten us. You got nothing.

How do you do that? You're so right.Laugh out load

Damn you're really not too sharp are you?
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03-01-2015, 04:07 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
I'm sorry you live in a world you don't think exists, and your 2+2 doesn't equal 4. Must be a real bummer. You say I'm not very sharp, that's funny.
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03-01-2015, 04:10 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2015 04:14 AM by Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 03:45 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 03:24 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm not saying Chas denied that, but you indicated that same mental behavior with him and do the same to me when I deny it. And do the same to multiple other positions of people on this board on various points. It reeks of intellectual dishonesty.

Mainly as i don't believe atheists are intellectual honest, and want the appearance of it rather than actual honesty. The agenda of atheists is too strong.

I appear to have missed a memo: What's the agenda?

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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03-01-2015, 04:29 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 03:45 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Yes that's because experience has shown that atheists, will state as much as possible but suddenly disappear when called upon to back their claims of the natural being all there is.

We should probably make a distinction between all atheists (huge group containing much diversity) and forum atheists who are quite often (not always) committed ideologues.

But yes, typically forum atheists are not interested in reason, but in ideology. And typically they don't know the difference between the two.

The same thing happens on the theist side. If somebody is spending every day on a Christian site, their mind is most likely firmly made up, and nothing will influence their opinion.

Ideology forums are generally places where like minded people gather to use the power of the crowd to reinforce their existing beliefs and self images, like a church.

Quote:Unfortunately, there's no evidence for naturalism either.

There's evidence of some kind for most points of view, or that point of view would not be widespread. The question is whether said evidence is convincing to a particular person.

There is evidence that all of reality is just a big machine, but there's far more evidence that none of are in a position to know what we're talking about, on issues of that scale.

The thing is, most people on forums don't want to admit that nobody knows, because that interferes with the primary mission of such forums, the maintenance of self flattering self images built from fantasy knowings.

Quote:Mainly as i don't believe atheists are intellectual honest, and want the appearance of it rather than actual honesty. The agenda of atheists is too strong.

If you would be willing to edit that statement to "many or most forum atheists", I would agree. Yes, they want the appearance of reason, but not the real thing.

And you have correctly identified the cause, the personal ego agendas are simply too strong.

To be fair, many or most of the folks who inhabit atheist forums appear to be in their twenties. It's probably not reasonable to expect someone who has only been an adult a few years to have sorted out issues that some of the best minds of humanity have been wrestling with for thousands of years.
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03-01-2015, 04:31 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
The agenda is a worldwide conspiracy to make brownshart look like an Asshole. who believes he's being intellectually honest when he spouts his philosophy of Nothingism.
He keeps asking me for proof that things don't exist. How that's possible, Fuck if I know.
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