Atheism is a position with assumptions...
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03-01-2015, 09:03 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 04:29 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 03:45 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Yes that's because experience has shown that atheists, will state as much as possible but suddenly disappear when called upon to back their claims of the natural being all there is.

We should probably make a distinction between all atheists (huge group containing much diversity) and forum atheists who are quite often (not always) committed ideologues.

But yes, typically forum atheists are not interested in reason, but in ideology. And typically they don't know the difference between the two.

I don't know any people who label themselves as an atheist and don't hold the views espoused here. I see fuck all diversity by active atheists, naturalism is their way to go.


Quote:Unfortunately, there's no evidence for naturalism either.

There's evidence of some kind for most points of view, or that point of view would not be widespread. The question is whether said evidence is convincing to a particular person.

There is evidence that all of reality is just a big machine, but there's far more evidence that none of are in a position to know what we're talking about, on issues of that scale.

The thing is, most people on forums don't want to admit that nobody knows, because that interferes with the primary mission of such forums, the maintenance of self flattering self images built from fantasy knowings.

Quote:
Quote:Mainly as i don't believe atheists are intellectual honest, and want the appearance of it rather than actual honesty. The agenda of atheists is too strong.

If you would be willing to edit that statement to "many or most forum atheists", I would agree. Yes, they want the appearance of reason, but not the real thing.

And you have correctly identified the cause, the personal ego agendas are simply too strong.

To be fair, many or most of the folks who inhabit atheist forums appear to be in their twenties. It's probably not reasonable to expect someone who has only been an adult a few years to have sorted out issues that some of the best minds of humanity have been wrestling with for thousands of years.

If I apply empiricism then I struggle to apply that "many or most atheists" are intellectually honest. Their agendas, focus on evidence, loose definitions of the "lack of belief" position, I don't see them as honest at all.
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03-01-2015, 09:08 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 09:02 PM)Free Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 08:48 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Lol, being an historian actually requires work, not the ability to enter words into google.

No historian would make a claim of " I damn well know everything about the Brownshirts". I wonder how I would know that?

You don't know anything. Your lack of reasoning demonstrates an inferior capacity to adequately comprehend basic logistical methods. It probably has something to do with the low quality gene pool you were born into.

You've demonstrated that you lack the ability to address the reasoning presented, and your focus on my username and gene inferiority beliefs are hypocritical. Don't worry I know you won't understand, just chuck back some more generic pejoratives. That seems to be where you excel, well, excel for you.
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03-01-2015, 09:09 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 09:03 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  If I apply empiricism then I struggle to apply that "many or most atheists" are intellectually honest. Their agendas, focus on evidence, loose definitions of the "lack of belief" position, I don't see them as honest at all.

You would struggle to apply anything, let alone empiricism. In fact the only thing I see your short bus mentality capable of handling is a consistent grasp on how to intellectually fail basic reasoning 101.

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03-01-2015, 09:22 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 09:08 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 09:02 PM)Free Wrote:  You don't know anything. Your lack of reasoning demonstrates an inferior capacity to adequately comprehend basic logistical methods. It probably has something to do with the low quality gene pool you were born into.

You've demonstrated that you lack the ability to address the reasoning presented, and your focus on my username and gene inferiority beliefs are hypocritical. Don't worry I know you won't understand, just chuck back some more generic pejoratives. That seems to be where you excel, well, excel for you.

I understand, but tell me something ... as someone most certainly out of his league intellectually, how small do you feel among the vastly superior minds on this forum?

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03-01-2015, 09:36 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
I've got clear skies, I'm headed out with my telescope too look at stuff that doesn't exist. That's funny right there.
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03-01-2015, 09:40 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Despite my "lack of belief" I do not consider myself to be an atheist.

I don't dwell on lacking belief in any theist claims, why would I bother.

I also don't assume science will answer the question of existence, nor look to it to guide my philosophy on anything. What is proven, or not falsified holds no sway on defining my position.

Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.

Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalise it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

These type discussions spark new ideas, new questions and things never looked at or considered before. They spark questions within ourselves. Also, it's nice hanging out with fellow atheists. Thumbsup

So, yes. We're trying to convince people, (not necessarily the poster him/herself, but the audience), just like religion tries. Each is trying to convince others. Difference is - religion has been at this for centuries, and a lot of it with government support, and worse. Drinking Beverage
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03-01-2015, 10:00 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 01:58 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 11:40 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Not quite sure what he said. You asked me what I deny and basically have been saying from multiple posts here I deny any definitive naturalism. There's some other posts trying to indicate that basically as well.

I would also say your points against Chas aren't logically sound. I've seen him say he doesn't hold a position and you jump to say he therefore hold an opposing position. But concepts aren't universally one or the other in this area. You seem to want to insist generalized statements about people in an all one way manner.

As I've said I think many atheists are philosophical naturalists but don't want the burden. Chas has not denied it, just said he never said that. Not the same thing.

I am agnostic toward philosophical naturalism. Don't make assumptions about people's beliefs - it just makes you a fool.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-01-2015, 10:05 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 04:29 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 03:45 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Yes that's because experience has shown that atheists, will state as much as possible but suddenly disappear when called upon to back their claims of the natural being all there is.

We should probably make a distinction between all atheists (huge group containing much diversity) and forum atheists who are quite often (not always) committed ideologues.

But yes, typically forum atheists are not interested in reason, but in ideology. And typically they don't know the difference between the two.

Says "Let's not generalize" and proceeds to generalize. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-01-2015, 10:08 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(03-01-2015 06:56 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 06:41 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I've seen a lot of this before, telling atheists what they believe, and adding random extra definitions to atheism.

Atheism is typically defined as the absence of a belief in god.

That "absence of belief" is created from a competing belief as to what is a qualified credible authority on the subject of god.

The theist typically thinks their holy book is a qualified credible authority on the subject of god.

The atheist typically thinks their human reason is a qualified credible authority on the subject of god.

Nope. Atheism is simply not accepting an unevidenced claim. Your misunderstanding of that is your problem, not ours.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-01-2015, 10:15 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
It's a real bummer that the moon that doesn't exist is making the sky so bright that I can see very few dso.
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