Atheism is a position with assumptions...
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04-01-2015, 09:21 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 09:58 PM by Free.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(04-01-2015 09:09 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 09:04 PM)Free Wrote:  That does not reflect my point at all. It's very simple;

To rationalize one position requires an alternative position in contrast.

Since none exist, as you also admit, then philosophical naturalism cannot be rationalized.

It's all we have. That's it.

Sorry that doesnt make it valid or that it doesn't require rationalisation.

Saying you dont know is all we have.

You don't understand rationalization at all:

You made the following statement:

Quote:Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.

Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalise it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

The process of rationalizing something implies that other options exist. For example, if a child gets poor grades in school it can be rationalized that the teacher was at fault, but the other options are numerous such as the kid was at fault, his parents were at fault etc.

Yet you admit that there are no other options to consider. Therefore, when there are no other options to consider then any kind of rationalization is not only absurd, but impossible and unnecessary.

The act of rationalizing in regards to a position held necessarily implies that the process of justifying the held position has an opposing position to consider.

Since you admit that there are no opposing positions to consider, then justifying the only available option is pointless and meaningless.

Since we have no other choice- since no other options exist- then the employment of philosophical naturalism is not subject to rationalization, reasoning, or justification.

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04-01-2015, 10:09 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(04-01-2015 08:57 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 03:33 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  At the moment, yes. Note when you say atheist, I only apply this label to people who claim to be an atheist.
I see no criticism of an unjustified claim of philosophical naturalism. Everyone is glossing over his ridiculous claim and
attempting to attack me, or even justifying the statements he's made. Guilt by association and/or keeping quiet.

You tend to band together, which is to be expected but justifies my claim of atheism being like a religion. Perhaps it's more
through fear of losing the social elements here. Who knows. I'm not here to make friends, and as such am being very honest.

Is this your manner of showing how you will ignore a persons points if they don't fit into your pre-generalized points. You complain to others about dodging or avoiding questions so why do you continually avoid the response of those who don't assert philosophical naturalism?

Sports fan also band together as do anime fans on forums. The claim of "like a religion" is another ridiculous misattribution of a label that carries nothing but an emotional negative weight in your head.

It's very simple, don't defend a position you claim to not hold.
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04-01-2015, 10:13 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(04-01-2015 10:09 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 08:57 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Is this your manner of showing how you will ignore a persons points if they don't fit into your pre-generalized points. You complain to others about dodging or avoiding questions so why do you continually avoid the response of those who don't assert philosophical naturalism?

Sports fan also band together as do anime fans on forums. The claim of "like a religion" is another ridiculous misattribution of a label that carries nothing but an emotional negative weight in your head.

It's very simple, don't defend a position you claim to not hold.

It's very simple; don't ask for rationalization on a state of being that has no other options.

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04-01-2015, 11:25 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(04-01-2015 09:21 PM)Free Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 09:09 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Sorry that doesnt make it valid or that it doesn't require rationalisation.

Saying you dont know is all we have.

You don't understand rationalization at all:

You made the following statement:

Quote:Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.

Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalise it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

The process of rationalizing something implies that other options exist. For example, if a child gets poor grades in school it can be rationalized that the teacher was at fault, but the other options are numerous such as the kid was at fault, his parents were at fault etc.

Yet you admit that there are no other options to consider. Therefore, when there are no other options to consider then any kind of rationalization is not only absurd, but impossible and unnecessary.

The act of rationalizing in regards to a position held necessarily implies that the process of justifying the held position has an opposing position to consider.

Since you admit that there are no opposing positions to consider, then justifying the only available option is pointless and meaningless.

Since we have no other choice- since no other options exist- then the employment of philosophical naturalism is not subject to rationalization, reasoning, or justification.

Funny. The other option is we don't know, it's beyond our understanding and may always be this way. It's a better option than pleading to ignorance.
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04-01-2015, 11:28 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Despite my "lack of belief" I do not consider myself to be an atheist.

I don't dwell on lacking belief in any theist claims, why would I bother.

I also don't assume science will answer the question of existence, nor look to it to guide my philosophy on anything. What is proven, or not falsified holds no sway on defining my position.

Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.

Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalise it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

Aren't you the guy who posted the ridiculous thread with questions for atheists that ended as a meme/insult war between chippy and Taq? Haha good times good times.

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04-01-2015, 11:35 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(04-01-2015 11:28 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:23 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Despite my "lack of belief" I do not consider myself to be an atheist.

I don't dwell on lacking belief in any theist claims, why would I bother.

I also don't assume science will answer the question of existence, nor look to it to guide my philosophy on anything. What is proven, or not falsified holds no sway on defining my position.

Those who do seem use science are addressing creationists and then take it that step further and assume that existence will be accounted for by science.(i.e philosophical naturalism). This is an assumption with no basis beyond assumption.

Is anyone who holds this position able to rationalise it beyond the standard canned arguments, which convince only the converted?

Aren't you the guy who posted the ridiculous thread with questions for atheists that ended as a meme/insult war between chippy and Taq? Haha good times good times.

Yep, so tell me why one bad option convinces you?
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04-01-2015, 11:39 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
It's as if i think open and respectful dialogue can't take place so just cut to the chase and take the piss.
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05-01-2015, 01:00 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
Hi Losty Big Grin

Seems they have different whack jobs here. I'm trying to figure out how they compare to those I know and love.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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05-01-2015, 08:53 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(04-01-2015 10:09 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 08:57 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Is this your manner of showing how you will ignore a persons points if they don't fit into your pre-generalized points. You complain to others about dodging or avoiding questions so why do you continually avoid the response of those who don't assert philosophical naturalism?

Sports fan also band together as do anime fans on forums. The claim of "like a religion" is another ridiculous misattribution of a label that carries nothing but an emotional negative weight in your head.

It's very simple, don't defend a position you claim to not hold.

Again I'll ask, would you to tell me what position that is? You seem to be dodging questions and not answering them... sound familiar?

Several of your lasts responses to me now have been stating I assume something or deny something. I'm filled with curiosity to know what these positions you claim to know about me are, since I haven't been making many claims of assuming views or ideologies in threads lately.

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05-01-2015, 12:51 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(05-01-2015 08:53 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 10:09 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  It's very simple, don't defend a position you claim to not hold.

Again I'll ask, would you to tell me what position that is? You seem to be dodging questions and not answering them... sound familiar?

Several of your lasts responses to me now have been stating I assume something or deny something. I'm filled with curiosity to know what these positions you claim to know about me are, since I haven't been making many claims of assuming views or ideologies in threads lately.
If you defend philosophical naturalism then you're tarred with that brush.
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