Atheism is a position with assumptions...
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30-12-2014, 09:14 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 09:07 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:56 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  There are strongly implied overtones by many atheists which claim the 'natural' (what we can observe) is all there is, otherwise why would so many address this as pivotal towards justifying atheism.
It's not pivotal towards justifying atheism.
What is pivotal is that that there is no convincing evidence for gods, not even any useful definition of gods.

The abundance and complexity of life could have been considered a compelling case for an intelligent creator but then along came Darwin and Wallace who both realised the simple natural mechanism of evolution (decent with modification and natural selection).

As yet there is no evidence to suggest any magical supernatural causes are required to explain any events, mechanisms or phenomena pertaining to our observable universe.

Evolution discounts creationism, nothing more. Without the ability to account for cause and affects basing a view on what we cannot account for doesn't say much does it?
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30-12-2014, 09:15 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
Those canned responses are collectively called "the stuff we can prove and back up with evidence "

Or as some would say ... knowledge

But since you're not interested in that, good luck to ya

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-12-2014, 09:16 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 09:11 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 09:06 PM)pablo Wrote:  Observable or not, natural or supernatural are putting too fine a point on it as far as I'm concerned.
I want the guy in the bible to convince me.
I want Jesus Fucking Christ himself to materialize right here in front of me, sit down on the couch, and have a conversation with me.
I will accept no less.
Meh I'm not bothered about Jebus.

Pick a god, any god.
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30-12-2014, 09:17 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:45 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  This may help:
What makes you think the by-product of existence (humanity) is able to account for that which created it (existence)?

His brain!
This lovely video might bring you up to speed if you'll allow it! Shy
Personally, I just like the music! Blush Reedings tuff!




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30-12-2014, 09:18 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2014 09:22 PM by BryanS.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 09:03 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:57 PM)BryanS Wrote:  In other words, you question humanity's ability to explain existence because humanity is part of said existence. That's the problem of "Plato's Cave". We may in fact not be able to explain existence because of this, however science is the best tool we have to break out of our limited perspective. The limitations of our human intuition and senses require rigorous application of logic combined with evidence to overcome these limitations .

The best tool does not mean it can answer it, nor that we should behave as if it definitely can. Atheists believe this to be true without any evidence beyond disproving creationism. Sorry this does;t give you any more than what it gives you.

You realise many average "atheists" want nothing to do with active atheism don't you? Why do you think that is?

I do not think it is true that most atheists assume science will explain existence. I cited one of the most outspoken advocates for science's ability to explain existence, Lawrence Krauss, and pointed out that he does not assume science will be able to achieve this feat. He is very careful to explicitly state as much.

I've read and taken in the thoughts of many atheists engaged in advocacy, and frankly they do not assume things like you say they do. What they actually do is defend the pursuit by scientists to explain existence . That pursuit is what theists attack, as they must, because if that pursuit succeeds, religion's claims on the truth will once again be damaged. We defend this scientific pursuit because we want to know the answer to the question of how to explain existence, and if theist opposition to other areas of scientific exploration (like evolution) is any indication, we need to defend science from theist attempts to snuff out that pursuit.

The average theist is not an active advocate for their faith any more than the average atheist is. If theists were all active advocates of their faith, their evangelism would be even more intolerable.
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30-12-2014, 09:22 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 09:17 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 08:45 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  This may help:
What makes you think the by-product of existence (humanity) is able to account for that which created it (existence)?

His brain!
This lovely video might bring you up to speed if you'll allow it! Shy
Personally, I just like the music! Blush Reedings tuff!




Oh you think existence means how life came to exist.
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30-12-2014, 09:24 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 09:09 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 09:04 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Merely an illustration of one 900 page text by a mathematical physicist which lends support to my Pure Number hypothesis, the creation tale of Gwynnite, a thing simply a swipe away - that it is patently ridiculous to assume that what you ask for can be adequately expressed in a forum reply - leading to the inevitable conclusion that your only purpose here is to yank on people's chains.

When you contest a position devoutly held by a group of people, which gives them a sense of certainty over the uncertain you don't expect group hugs do you?

Let me know how your Pure Number hypothesis goes.

What position/group of people? You mean theists that hold the opinion that God explains existence?

Fuck them. An hypothesis that develops into a solid theory on the nature of existence would be valid regardless of whose feelings are hurt.

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30-12-2014, 09:27 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 08:37 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  What makes you think the by-product of existence is able to account for that which created it?

What makes you think the byproduct of existence is able to vouch for it?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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30-12-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 09:22 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 09:17 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  His brain!
This lovely video might bring you up to speed if you'll allow it! Shy
Personally, I just like the music! Blush Reedings tuff!




Oh you think existence means how life came to exist.

What am I missing?

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30-12-2014, 09:33 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(30-12-2014 09:14 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 09:07 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It's not pivotal towards justifying atheism.
What is pivotal is that that there is no convincing evidence for gods, not even any useful definition of gods.

The abundance and complexity of life could have been considered a compelling case for an intelligent creator but then along came Darwin and Wallace who both realised the simple natural mechanism of evolution (decent with modification and natural selection).

As yet there is no evidence to suggest any magical supernatural causes are required to explain any events, mechanisms or phenomena pertaining to our observable universe.

Evolution discounts creationism, nothing more. Without the ability to account for cause and affects basing a view on what we cannot account for doesn't say much does it?

Also explains and potentially predicts changes in species. So that's something more. There hasn't been any supernatural phenomena observed in the evolutionary process, and as far as it is known, there isn't a need for one for it to continue.

Not sure what your angle is with your argument. Are you trying to say that because evolution doesn't deal with supernatural entities and doesn't disprove it, that means said entity exists?
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