Atheism is a position with assumptions...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 2.5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
09-01-2015, 07:19 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(08-01-2015 04:10 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(08-01-2015 03:04 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Thanks. Ok no more trolling, well maybe. I find that some atheists will no condemn a claim like philosophical naturalism, despite being logically unsound, yet condemn a theist claiming their god is real. Which is actually ok, if you're just anti-theist, but many atheists claim intellectual superiority (e.g. the 'Brights') over other positions and claim a form of association. Personally I would want nothing to do with such a deranged position. SO the guilt by association is true, if you're not condemning it and co-existing with it, I presume it doesn't bother you.

Yet if I make sweeping generalisation such as I have done, everyone is up in arms.

To be honest a lot of atheism I would have no issue with if it really were a lack of belief, but it seems it's often emotionally charged behind the pretence of objectivity but just reeks of an agenda to me.

I do believe in Captain Crunch.

Atheism is MORE than a lack of belief is an illogical association to add.

This is a statement I will never agree with. If it was just a lack of belief, then you'd have no reason to come to this forum.
Quote:It's not hard to state it plainly. Yes, Atheists have other opinions or ideas than just atheism... but that doesn't change that atheism is just atheism. It isn't more; atheist have more involved but atheism isn't more.

For example the various naturalism, empiricism, coherentism, scientism etc are all variants on a very similar theme. It just so happens that most people who describe themselves as atheists subscribe to one of these 'isms'? So atheism becomes synonymous with these perspectives, and becomes more than just the definition.


Quote:Just last week or maybe now two weeks ago I also lambasted Free for a idiotic thread he started with comments just of that nature indicating atheist superior intelligence to theists and other topics. You don't need to boil everything down to groups.

If I'm dealing with people I don't know, groups are good.
Quote:There is an agenda to basically any label if one chooses to use it. To boil it down that everyones agenda is the same or something you have the answer to is another dickish assertion. You have an agenda to calling yourself agnostic as well. And doing so vaguely when that also could mean you deny the possibility to have knowledge or other definitions. Yet you discount peoples atheist terms scope of definitions and purpose.

To a degree, but I'm just not making any claims about something I do not know and will disagree with most people who make truth claims on this topic, whether it's an atheist or theist.[/quote]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-01-2015, 07:25 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(08-01-2015 02:03 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm confused by the "would hold more significance" claim. What does is the point of being outside of the norm? You say it like it's valuable or desirably in of itself. I would say the reason I think identifying as non-believers/atheist whatever is beneficial is because it's actually a rising category that is helping to boost social awareness of the opposition to religious belief. To let people know it's alright to be an atheist and that it's a rising group of people. Consider The other issues of what stances one take on topics like science are secondary in my view. They're not primary atheistic/agnostic/theist positions.

Labelling yourself an atheist generations ago actually held some value, as you would have been in a minority. Now it seems like a worthless label to me. Much like any lack of belief in another's claim would be.

It would make more sense to be anti-theist, or anti-religion to me.

Quote:You seem to want to focus on those people you already have a position set upon about. That's not my cup of tea but I guess that's what keeps you interested.

Whatever gets you through your life.

Quote:And I think when you're in communication, generalizations do the opposite and stifle open dialogue. It's what causes talks to melt down into trollish back and forth bickering. When you're actually in a point of studying or using data, generalizations are time savers. Time and time again people come to forums, generalize the members falsely into one group and it leads to terrible open dialogue... especially when it's done from a sense of superiority.

From my perspective there's nothing to say, no one knows. End of.

My trollish posts wanted to draw out 'Free' and anyone else who holds such a baseless position. Sorry if you took offence, but this is the internet, it's not as if real relationships exist here.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-01-2015, 07:27 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(08-01-2015 02:42 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(08-01-2015 01:25 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  The lack of belief atheist often comes with a very standard agenda of proposing science as the answer to everything.
Strictly speaking that position is known as "scientism" and I don't personally subscribe to it. Scientism usually demonstrates a good deal of ignorance of philosophy, and of science's reliance upon it (both in its reliance on logic and math -- which, properly, are branches of philosophy, based as they are on axiomatic givens -- but also in requiring philosophy to inform science how to direct itself and its applied arm --technology -- for the common good). Science gives us, e.g., fission, but doesn't speak to how fission should or shouldn't be used -- to vaporize cities, say.

What I propose (not as an atheist, but as an empiricist) is what works ... and comparing the track record of science for helping us discover how reality actually works, vs the track record of religion for doing the same ... is that science is a wonderful thing which neither promises nor deliver 100% certitude but works and works well. I make no other claim for it than that.

It may be that atheists tend to embrace science because it does the job ... and if theism, or alchemy, or astrology, or any other system of approaching reality worked better, we'd probably tend to favor that. Science just happens to win out.

Notice I did not say that science either does, or could possibly, explain everything ... just that it has tremendous expressive and predictive power and results in highly useful discoveries about reality. There will always the inexplicable and the uncertain, and people will tend to invent gods to live in those places, because it's easier for them than just sitting with uncertainty unless and until it can be properly resolved.

Now if you want me as an atheist to embrace or at least be open to something other than science -- please do tell what that would be. I'm always happy for new tools in the old toolkit.


I think there are many theists and agnostics who embrace science as well. It just doesn't go beyond what its purpose is for those groups.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-01-2015, 08:26 PM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(09-01-2015 07:25 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Labelling yourself an atheist generations ago actually held some value, as you would have been in a minority.

1. In your opinion only. The label has a great deal of value to many people, on both sides of the issue. Luckily for us your not in charge of dictating value.

2. We are still the minority I'm nearly every part of the world so.....ya... Facepalm

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like WhiskeyDebates's post
09-01-2015, 09:44 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2015 09:50 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(09-01-2015 07:19 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(08-01-2015 04:10 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Atheism is MORE than a lack of belief is an illogical association to add.

This is a statement I will never agree with. If it was just a lack of belief, then you'd have no reason to come to this forum.

You're silly Shitshirt. I didn't come here for atheism. I'm here for the pussy. Silly Shitshirt.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
10-01-2015, 12:01 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(09-01-2015 07:19 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(08-01-2015 04:10 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Atheism is MORE than a lack of belief is an illogical association to add.
This is a statement I will never agree with. If it was just a lack of belief, then you'd have no reason to come to this forum.

[Image: h9C11DBF6]

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2015, 01:48 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(09-01-2015 08:26 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(09-01-2015 07:25 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Labelling yourself an atheist generations ago actually held some value, as you would have been in a minority.

1. In your opinion only. The label has a great deal of value to many people, on both sides of the issue. Luckily for us your not in charge of dictating value.

2. We are still the minority I'm nearly every part of the world so.....ya... Facepalm

In the western world apart from the US, atheism is an anachronistic position.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2015, 01:55 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(09-01-2015 09:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-01-2015 07:19 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  This is a statement I will never agree with. If it was just a lack of belief, then you'd have no reason to come to this forum.

You're silly Shitshirt. I didn't come here for atheism. I'm here for the pussy. Silly Shitshirt.

That is genius. Why not call me shitshit, as if you take the r out of shirt you have shit. Or what if you replaced songs which have brown in them too?

Old shit shoe, shit eyed girl, shit sugar, wynonas bigshit beaver ,bobby shit goes down.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2015, 02:06 AM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2015 02:12 AM by Brownshirt.)
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(10-01-2015 12:01 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(09-01-2015 07:19 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  This is a statement I will never agree with. If it was just a lack of belief, then you'd have no reason to come to this forum.

[Image: h9C11DBF6]


Weeping
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2015, 02:17 AM
RE: Atheism is a position with assumptions...
(10-01-2015 02:06 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  [quote='EvolutionKills' pid='717089' dateline='1420869665']

[Image: h9C11DBF6]


Weeping
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: